Corona Virus

[algy]

CHINA IS RESPONSIBLE, CHINA SHOULD BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR THIS MESS THAT IS AFFECTING THE REST OF THE PLANET!!!!!.

[Observer II]

How exactly do you "hold to account" the largest Army in the World and the second largest economy in the world ?    😷       

[Bill]

A lot of the nasty viruses seem to start off there or so it seems. Maybe it could be something they do that makes it easier for a virus to mutate into a new strain that we have no immunity to, who knows?

But if that's the case, then the only thing the world can do is to ask or demand that they change their ways and hope they listen. I doubt China is going to do anything to try and compensate the world for the loss of life and financial problems and before anyone suggests it,  sending everyone a deep fried bat isn't a great idea. 

 

Bill

[Observer II]

Insanitary conditions,  religious and cultural practises around most of the globe, mean that such episodes are likely to repeated. Our penchant for global travel then allows such incidents to spread rapidly throughout the world.   Yes, these countries need to be persuaded to modernise food hygene standards and practises and places like Africa may need financial help to do so;  but I think we need to ask why it spread so rapidly out of China,  why didn't the international community lock down China by a ban on all flights to and from there asap ?  What we are now being forced to learn, is that people can work from home, that communications can be virtual and that flying off on holiday isn't essential.   

[Davy51]

This could be the start of another industrial revolution Obs that means travelling to work is no longer necessary ,thus helping to save the  planet at the same time.

[asperity]

3 hours ago, Observer II said:

 Our penchant for global travel

Speak for yourself Obs. I've no intention of travelling anywhere ever again!! 😇🤣

[Latchford Locks]

On 3/28/2020 at 4:56 PM, asperity said:

Speak for yourself Obs. I've no intention of travelling anywhere ever again!! 😇🤣

Abergele will be the furthest I'll be going from now

People dismiss North Wales... well believe me a 1 hour drive and your in a lovely area.

[Observer II]

😉   I've had my share too Asp; I'm referring mainly to the youngsters, who have taken internationalism to new levels. 😉

3 hours ago, Davy51 said:

This could be the start of another industrial revolution Obs that means travelling to work is no longer necessary ,thus helping to save the  planet at the same time.

There's also another dimension to this Dave:  we've all been encouraged to give a big thank you and pat on the back to NHS and other Emergency workers; but perhaps it's given society an opportunity to evaluate which jobs are really valuable to a cohesive society;   and it certainly isn't those who currently get the highest pay.  😷

[Davy51]

Too true Obs. Perhaps remuneration should be more socially balanced away from the current top earners in charge & towards the people at the coal face ,so to speak.

[algy]

I didn't say that China could be held to account I said they should be held to account, Obs and I still say they should be, there are greater minds than mine to sort that one out, perhaps you could make a constructive suggestion!.😉.

[Observer II]

Sorry Alg, but if there is no "could", it seems a waste to propose a "should".    The Chinese are clearly committed to becoming a modern super-state, so I'm sure any inadequacies that gave rise to this incident will be rectified;  however, it's not just a matter for the Communist Party, but one for their people as a whole; who still pursue a culture of eating wild animals, of demanding shark fins, whilst throwing the rest of the shark back into the sea etc.  Just to sum up the level of religious induced ignorance in the world;  a Russian Doctor was shown in a Church on TV News; claiming that attendance at a Church was a safe environment, because it was a Holy place; similar views have been expressed concerning Iranian Mosques.  😷

[Milky]

On 3/28/2020 at 10:46 AM, Observer II said:

How exactly do you "hold to account" the largest Army in the World and the second largest economy in the world ?    😷       

By stopping trading!

They steel industrial secrets, build up huge military reserves threatening neighbours like Malaysia, threaten endangered animals by buying bits of therm fir their wacko medication and by both building coal fired power stations and shipping things over such long distance add to the supposed global warming.

Yet in order to literally save a few pence on manufacture we go crawling to them and the public keep buying 

If Greta Thunburg and her greens were to target the ports and the huge businesses that insist on manufacturing in china then I would be right with her. However they won't they probably tell me I am being racist.

Next Time you buy something especially higher end see it is made in China think what your supporting!

[Observer II]

Think if this was a possibilty, it would have been done already.   The Chinese have bought up $billions of US debt; so I think you'll find the picture is more complicated and at the end of the day, they have provided the cheap labour that we depend on for cheap goods, just as we depend on their huge market.   Think they now own what's left of our steel industry,  will soon have a monoply on 5G etc.        So I think it's a case of who needs who most ?         😷

[Milky]

6 hours ago, Observer II said:

Think if this was a possibilty, it would have been done already.   The Chinese have bought up $billions of US debt; so I think you'll find the picture is more complicated and at the end of the day, they have provided the cheap labour that we depend on for cheap goods, just as we depend on their huge market.   Think they now own what's left of our steel industry,  will soon have a monoply on 5G etc.        So I think it's a case of who needs who most ?         😷

I don't get your logic on this one, why would it be not possible?

Why do we depend on their cheap labour and cheap goods and if they own what is left of our steel industry why does Apple need to make their products in China.It is our politicians who are giving the Chines access to the 5G network.

Further what is forcing people like you and me from not buying Chines made products - apart for the difficulty of finding alternatives in this country. I needed a health fryer last year and spent weeks trying to source one that was not made in China, eventually found one made in Germany in Lidl. 

 

[Observer II]

With the largest population in the world, they present the largest consumer market, and Western industries want to sell them goods.  The Chinese now have money to spend, on holidays in the UK, and access to UK Universities.  Don't think the Chinese have forgotten their history of trading with the West -  in the 19th century,  we tried to get trade deals with them to get our hands on their tea,  but they didn't want any of the things on offer, as they believed themselves self sufficient.   The British solution was to sell them opium, grown in India; to build in an addicted need on their part - which caused the Opium Wars, and the forced colonisation of Chinese ports like Hong Kong.  Capitalism is extremely pragmatic where profit is concerned; that's why we still sell arms to Saudi Arabia; money trumps morality in the real world.

[Milky]

23 hours ago, Observer II said:

With the largest population in the world, they present the largest consumer market, and Western industries want to sell them goods.  The Chinese now have money to spend, on holidays in the UK, and access to UK Universities.  Don't think the Chinese have forgotten their history of trading with the West -  in the 19th century,  we tried to get trade deals with them to get our hands on their tea,  but they didn't want any of the things on offer, as they believed themselves self sufficient.   The British solution was to sell them opium, grown in India; to build in an addicted need on their part - which caused the Opium Wars, and the forced colonisation of Chinese ports like Hong Kong.  Capitalism is extremely pragmatic where profit is concerned; that's why we still sell arms to Saudi Arabia; money trumps morality in the real world.

Well they have a huge population but only a small selection of the people are consumers of western goods, because most are on very low incomes.

The people who are buying the Wests motor cars and luxury items and are coming here on holiday are the rich elite

I think now it is the other way round with China pushing its cheaply made goods on the West while putting up barriers for Western made goods.

[Observer II]

Precisely -  better capitalists than the capitalists, it seems.     😉

[asperity]

The lockdown strategy explained:

https://youtu.be/fCOkEXsfPoQ

[Evil Sid]

so basically the longer the lockdown the better chance we have of reaching a zero or even negative infection rate....🤔

[asperity]

Is a negative infection rate one where we collect all the viruses and ship them back to China?

[asperity]

New York mayor Cuomo is describing the Corona virus as "the European virus". I know Americans have a very vague idea about geography but................................

[asperity]

Interesting:

Here’s a clip from the EVMS covid protocol which calls out the recommendations of health authorities as mistaken..

The above pathologies are not novel, although the combined severity in COVID-19 disease is considerable. Our long-standing and more recent experiences show consistently successful treatment if traditional therapeutic principles of early and aggressive intervention is achieved, before the onset of advanced organ failure. It is our collective opinion that the historically high levels of morbidity and mortality from COVID-19 is due to a single factor: the widespread and inappropriate reluctance amongst intensivists to employ anti-inflammatory and anticoagulant treatments, including corticosteroid therapy early in the course of a patient’s hospitalization. It is essential to recognize that it is not the virus that is killing the patient, rather it is the patient’s overactive immune system. The flames of the “cytokine fire” are out of control and need to be extinguished. Providing supportive care (with ventilators that themselves stoke the fire) and waiting for the cytokine fire to burn itself out simply does not work… this approach has FAILED and has led to the death of tens of thousands of patients. The systematic failure of critical care systems to adopt corticosteroid therapy resulted from the published recommendations against corticosteroids use by the World Health Organization (WHO), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the American Thoracic Society (ATS) amongst others. A very recent publication by the Society of Critical Care Medicine and authored one of the members of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care (FLCCC) group (UM), identified the errors made by these organizations in their analyses of corticosteroid studies based on the findings of the SARS and H1N1 pandemics. Their erroneous recommendation to avoid corticosteroids in the treatment of COVID-19 has led to the development of myriad organ failures which have overwhelmed critical care systems across the world. Our treatment protocol targeting these key pathologies has achieved near uniform success, if begun within 6 hours of a COVID19 patient presenting with shortness of breath or needing ≥4L/min of oxygen. If such early initiation of treatment could be systematically achieved, the need for mechanical ventilators and ICU beds will decrease dramatically.

 

So the panic about ventilators was counter-productive. It seems the learning curve is steep and ongoing.

[Observer II]

Seems "the experts" disagree with each other.    😷

[Evil Sid]

That is the main point of "experts". You just have to pick the ones that support your particular argument.

[Confused52]

5 hours ago, asperity said:

Interesting:

Here’s a clip from the EVMS covid protocol which calls out the recommendations of health authorities as mistaken..

The above pathologies are not novel,.....(clipped)

 

So the panic about ventilators was counter-productive. It seems the learning curve is steep and ongoing.

I read that too linked from WUWT. It is worrying that NICE guidance seems silent about the elements of the protocol from East Virginia Med School. However almost all the elements have been out there for ages. I