Tier 3

[asperity]

Warrington has apparently agreed to Tier 3 restrictions next week.

Meanwhile Wigan has been placed into Tier 3.14159265359 😄

[Observer II]

The tiers of a Clown (Smokey Robinson ?).   They just can't help it -  they are trying to devise a fine tuning system for lock downs, because they simply can't bring themselves to risk "the economy", but it can't work without an efficient and effective track and trace system, which they don't have.   Meanwhile, we've got young  covidiots holding covid parties, trying to get infected for immunity.  Problem is, there is increasing evidence that there is no immunity or that it quickly fades, and long term damage, if not death, may result.   ICU's are learning and improving treatments, largely by trial and error; but the fundemental remains, this virus relies on person to person transmission, brake the cycle and you kill the virus.      😷   💀

[Davy51]

That Welsh clown is taking catch phrases & sound bites to another level. The original "circuit breaker" has gone to firebreak & now he's talking about giving covid a short sharp shock. No wonder covid doesn't know whether it's coming or going.

[Observer II]

Actually, a forest fire is the best analogy for this mess -  catch it early and contain it, and it won't spread; once it does spread you rely on firebreaks; but it doesn't help when the fire is being spread by young arsonists.   😷

[asperity]

And how many of these young so-called "covidiots" are actually getting ill, or at least ill enough to require hospitalisation? Does anyone know or is this just more guesswork and conjecture?

Meanwhile the Welsh government has banned the sale of non-essential items in supermarkets, going to the extreme of having supermarket shelves of what they deem non-essential items screened off. This is beyond crazy.

[Confused52]

3 hours ago, Observer II said:

The tiers of a Clown (Smokey Robinson ?).   They just can't help it -  they are trying to devise a fine tuning system for lock downs, because they simply can't bring themselves to risk "the economy", but it can't work without an efficient and effective track and trace system, which they don't have.   Meanwhile, we've got young  covidiots holding covid parties, trying to get infected for immunity.  Problem is, there is increasing evidence that there is no immunity or that it quickly fades, and long term damage, if not death, may result.   ICU's are learning and improving treatments, largely by trial and error; but the fundemental remains, this virus relies on person to person transmission, brake the cycle and you kill the virus.      😷   💀

There is no realistic way of shutting down the economy without long lasting harm. It is a fact.

The problem with track and trace is the gits who wont answer because they don't want to be told to isolate because they have no intention of doing it. They found this in academic studies months ago. The council coming round would be no better as they will just be out. The second problem is that test and trace cannot handle to current volume. I await you reasoning as to whey that is the government's for deliberately infecting so many people!

As for increased evidence that there is no immunity or that it quickly fades: I think you have just misunderstood the evidence. There has been evidence all along that the less serious cases do not generate many antibodies. Those who are asymptomatic will have small levels of antibodies which will therefore fade to undetectability quickly. The vaccines will give the kind of antibody and T cell responses one gets from a full blown case and they will last longer than the average infection as a result. They have been running trials and you can be sure they are measuring antibody and T-cell levels across a rage of people to find out how long immunity lasts so they can programme in and cost the necessary booster programmes. The initial programme will only be 60 million doses, two per person, so young means those below 45 which means 30 million getting vaccinated. The problem of long covid will, I think, mean that they have to get to 100% coverage within the endurance of the vaccine in a couple of years or so. I say that because I suspect that the second time the sufferers who don't know what they've got catch the virus it could kill them, i.e. be the unknown underlying condition.

There are many things that are claimed to have benefit but the statistics about what the NHS does give, in the recent past. and to how many patients is in the reports to SAGE and it leaves me thinking that they are not trying very hard. There is much work including AI analyses and trial and error is just not humane. 

You are right that people need to isolate to break the chain but that is not happening. The council must know why in Warrington but they just say that they have done all they can. The problem is I don't see that they have done anything at all to modify people's behaviour apart from the annoying cycle lanes because that is what they want to do. The fact is that if you hadn't already got a bike the only easy way to get one would be to nick one because the shops seem to be out of stock!

[Observer II]

Think we need to analyse the term "shutting down the economy" -   think we need to differentiate between want and need;  we need essential services, we want to travel and booze etc.   If non essential areas of the economy suffer or even die out, they will return if this plague subsides.   The only question then is, how do we pay for it, assuming Gov expenditure on keeping folk at home.  Well the only prime examples of such vast expenditure were WW1 & WW2;  which took 60 years to repay,  so not the end of the world.   As for the corvidiots, I agree, a much more draconian enforcement is required, but I doubt that it is possible in a "freedom loving" democracy; unlike China, where their authoritarian approach is now allowing a resurgence in their economy.   😷

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, asperity said:

….Meanwhile the Welsh government has banned the sale of non-essential items in supermarkets, going to the extreme of having supermarket shelves of what they deem non-essential items screened off. This is beyond crazy.

I could agree more that it is crazy. The law is being misused since it is about protecting health and not preferring one kind of business against another. Tesco, or another large chain, could well take the Welsh Government to judicial review and win. With the English paying the compo of course!

[Davy51]

Apparently ,darn sarf somewhere ,sewage is being tested & has been found to be carrying traces of covid19. Now is that in the detritus or the water it is flushed away with ? If it is in the water perhaps it is also in many watercourses throughout the world which will also be supplying reservoirs. Perhaps the virus is rain borne.

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, Davy51 said:

Apparently ,darn sarf somewhere ,sewage is being tested & has been found to be carrying traces of covid19. Now is that in the detritus or the water it is flushed away with ? If it is in the water perhaps it is also in many watercourses throughout the world which will also be supplying reservoirs. Perhaps the virus is rain borne.

It is being done because virus shedding was detected in faeces and urine of infected people even when asymptomatic. It is claimed that this detects case clusters before track and trace can find them. The hope is that it will be possible to detect where testing campaigns are needed very early but of course there need to be low levels in general.

from the BBC today:

But a pilot in south-west England has already helped to spot a rise in infections that occurred last month in Plymouth, where a cluster was silently growing as a result of several asymptomatic cases.

It isn't in rainwater.

 

[asperity]

Perhaps we should all send a sample to Downing Street to show that we are supporting this initiative 🤔😉

[Davy51]

Something else you can apparently catch from lavatory seats then.

[Bill]

Speaking of lavatory seats, I went to the loo at the pub last Tuesday. Two others were in there at the time and neither bothered to wash their hands when done so what chance do we have? Tempted to say something but didn't want to get involved with two drunken footy supporters.

BTW Screening off none essential products in large supermarkets seems a bit ott but at least people should spend less time doing their weekly shop if they’re not casually browsing so maybe not that bad an idea. 

[asperity]

It's more than "a bit ott" Bill, it's hysterical nonsense that goes hand in hand with a lot of the hysterical nonsense we've seen over the last 6 months or so. And at the same time the PTB have been encouraging this, they have signally failed to bring in measures that would have protected the vulnerable, not to mention the T&T fiasco still on-going.

[Observer II]

Fail to understand why folk "browse" in the first place, getting in the way of others,  while folk who know exactly what they want and go straight to it, in the minimum time possible.    😠    😷

[Davy51]

One of the problems with supermarkets in my view is that ,when i have demisted my glasses, there is too much variety on the shelves to find what you really want without browsing ,especially in the tablet & ointment sections, otherwise i also am like lightning round the shops when going for the regular staples.

 

This Welsh bloke though is highlighting how our lords & masters ,led by the science of course, are clutching at straws as they go round in circles. And what a useless article Starmer is ,full of non constructive criticism.

[Bill]

Irrespective of what you think or believe, you can’t deny the logic that spending less time in a store reduces the numbers in there at any one time and thus the possibility of virus spread. I did the shopping the other week without Mrs Green and was in and out in half the time it normally takes.

 

[Observer II]

The only problem now is, they are rearranging shelves, so stuff is being moved to other parts of the store, which totally disrupts one's momentum when doing a man's speed shop.    😷

[Bill]

If that’s a problem for you Obs then I recommend steering well clear of Sainsbury’s at the moment as they’re doing a complete layout change around. They’d have been better closing the store for a couple of weeks while they did all the modifications. Even the staff don't know where half of the stuff is located. 

 

[Latchford Locks]

21 hours ago, Bill said:

If that’s a problem for you Obs then I recommend steering well clear of Sainsbury’s at the moment as they’re doing a complete layout change around. They’d have been better closing the store for a couple of weeks while they did all the modifications. Even the staff don't know where half of the stuff is located. 

 

Its for that very reason I've been using Lidl.. but blimey I've found things so much cheaper I may stay that way now

 

 

 

[asperity]

Those of you who object to other shoppers having the temerity to be in a shop at the same time as you, can I recommend online shopping? That way the only other person you will have to deal with is the bloke who drives the delivery van.

[Evil Sid]

18 hours ago, Bill said:

I did the shopping the other week without Mrs Green and was in and out in half the time it normally takes.

only HALF the time....old age must be setting in bill.

my average fortnightly shop takes about thirty minutes on my own and costs about £50 average. food for a fortnight and in and out quickly.

Same shop with mrs sid. hour and a half costs about £100 and no food in the house when we get back....🤭

not been to lidl for a while may have to pop in and see how they compare to aldi. I like aldi's minced beef. 1kg for under a fiver and that is 5% fat one. four packs of that and that is a dozen main meals sorted for me and mrs sid.

[Bill]

Well you’re certainly right about old age setting in Sid, I hit the speed limit a couple of weeks back when I reached 70. 😊

Temerity? I had to Google that one 😊 I doubt anyone really objects about others shopping at the same time as themselves but reducing the number of people in one place at any one time makes absolute sense to me. Anyone that’s worried and can’t change their routines, then online shopping might be the best option but it’s certainly not the case for me.

There is a positive in all this. So many people and organisations do things in a way that they’ve always done but Covid has brought changes that make more sense that hopefully will remain when this is all over. For example, my wife went for a routine blood test recently. In the past it was spend an age looking for a car parking place then sit waiting hours to be seen. Now parking is easy and you’re in and out in minutes. It’s better for them and better for us so they should keep it this way. This is just one example but I’m sure right across society people are rethinking if some of our norms need to change.

Bill  

 

[Stallard12]

Trump 74 years old, "tested' positive, spent a few days in isolation, never stopped workig and was back to full speed in a week .

Valentino Rossi, 40 yr old Moto Grand Prix rider, tested positive last week, feels great but is obeying quarantine and will be racing again this weekend.

 

paul Pogba, mid twenties, tested positive, no health issues, was back playing at full speed after a week.

 

97% of all covid19 positives recover with only a slight inconvenience.

 

86 % of all people who have died all had multiple major pre existing major health issues.

 

Cases are going up mainly due to increased testing and deaths are going down.

 

New survey shows that a majority of deaths from covid19 would have most likely died within months from their pre existing condition.

 

Even the WHO have declared that lockdowns are more deadly than the virus itself.

 

If you drive a car or walk across busy streets you are in more danger of dieing than you are from covid19 .

[Bill]

To be fair Stalard, because of his status, Trump was being tested almost daily and received immediate specialised treatment before the virus could fully take hold. In contrast, the average man on the street only gets tested when the virus has had time to develop to the point where symptoms show. Even then, the average person is just told to stay at home and self-isolate rather than being rushed to a top medical facility.

Re cases only increasing because we’re testing more, well that’s true up to a point but the death rate and numbers requiring intensive care are still showing exponential growth and that isn’t a function of testing.

Perhaps those who look at the numbers and say that this is no worse than normal flu should ask the question where would we be now if all the measures had not been in place?

Bill