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Gary

School uniform row

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Seems such a shame that Lymm is getting so much bad press at the moment since it was marked as 'outstanding/exceptional' by Ofsted just before Christmas for the second year running.

 

Surely it can't really have changed that much in the past 6 months :roll:

 

InkyP..... you say the low moral and disharmony is becasue of other suggested changes too (of which most of us are unaware as it seems to only stem around the uniform change in all the reports).

 

Re: the bit about the additional daily lesson etc ...... how many lessons do they currently have a day and how long is their current lunch break ?

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Seems such a shame that Lymm is getting so much bad press at the moment since it was marked as 'outstanding/exceptional' by Ofsted just before Christmas for the second year running.

 

Surely it can't really have changed that much in the past 6 months :roll:

 

 

The new head started in September. Coincidence????

 

I don't know the details of the current and new school days just what I've heard second hand, so I'm probably not best placed to give specifics. I have, however, spoken to quite a number of parents and staff who are unhappy about it.

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The new head started in September. Coincidence????

 

Maybe or maybe not :? However it has been known for new heads to be appointed due to their willingness to implement and oversee planned future changes. As such it's suprising what level of support the get from the decision makers above :wink:

 

I don't know the details of the current and new school days just what I've heard second hand, so I'm probably not best placed to give specifics. I have, however, spoken to quite a number of parents and staff who are unhappy about it.

 

My sons school has 5 lessons a day... 4 in the morning followed by lunch break then one lesson in the afternoon followed by "form" and home. Maybe Lymm will be doing that.

 

I went to the same school as him but we had two lessons in the morning (with breaks inbetween) ... then 1 hr for lunch... followed by two more lessons in the afternoon with a break in between them too.

 

Guess there's more to learn these days so harder to fit it all in :wink::lol:

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Dis, you say that but when we were at school it was usually gone 4 when we left; not the 3 oclock or half past that it is today.

 

Keep the kids in school till 6, it will mean fewer scallys on the streets!

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BazJ,

It was the same in my day, start at 9.00 and finish at 4.00.

My lad who attends Lymm now starts at 8.15 and finishes at 3.15, he actually finishes school before his brother who is at junior school and finishes at 3.30. As InkyP, I dont have the exact details of the other planned changes, but my lad tells me there are plans to abolish the hall system and change daily routines to fit in an extra lesson. These will have an impact on both lunchtiome and after school clubs and activities. Strange how I only hear of these changes via my lad with no correspondance from the school (other than Uniform). All this while my lad is currently sitting his GCSE`s. I have to say the Heads timing for all this is appaulling. I believe its a combination of changes that are lowering moral and causing teachers to leave not just the issue of uniform.

Ian

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The petition organised by pupils, reported by Lymm Life, got below 300 signatures and there was been no suggestion that LHS interfered. From a population of 2000, that's less than 15% feeling strongly enough to sign to keep the current uniform. So over 85% don't mind if the uniform changes or would welcome an upgrade. If we want our kids' views respected, then shouldn't we respect that massive majority vote?

 

Of course, that result doesn't suit the militant minority who always seem to be threatening to sue about something. Lymm.net is an open forum, no influence from the school, post what you like, instantly. There are maybe thirty people who've posted in the Uniform thread up to today. The number on there opposed to the uniform isn't even 1% of parents, never mind the majority they claim to be.

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Lymm Parent

 

A petition is only a list of names and should not in any way be confused with a democratically conducted poll that measures the views of both sides.

 

Your 85% figure for the support for the new uniforms is nothing more than your own personal assumption and has no basis in fact. Indeed, using this kind of logic or rather lack of, the numbers could be interpreted to mean absolutely anything.

 

If you want the respect of the kids then perhaps you shouldn?t be trying to con them by twisting figures and claiming a massive majority vote when no voting process ever took place.

 

You don?t by any chance work for the road-planning department of WBC by any chance do you? :lol:

 

Bill :)

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I didn't say there was an 85% vote for the new uniforms. I said 85% did not feel strongly enough about the current uniform to sign a petition to keep it. I'm not twisting anything. Believe me, if 85% of students had signed the petitions, I'd be personally asking Miss Walsh to respect their views.

 

I'd really rather you, Bill, didn't confuse me with someone you're entitled to patronise though.

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Despite Bill's play on words or perhaps play on percentages, LymmParent makes a valid point that also covers the breast beating on here. A loud minority trying to outshout a passive majority.

 

Typical protest. :wink:

 

Bill, democratically conducted poll that measures the views of both sides? Both you and I know that is nonsense. The ones with bees in bonnets will alway SEEM to hold the popular vote over the ones who are willing to go with the flow.

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Maybe 85% want to jack in school uniforms altogether and go in their jeans?

 

or maybe 40% want to go in their jeans and 45% want to jack in school altogether?

 

or maybe 100% don't want a new school uniform but only 15% are brave enough to say and 85% are waiting for a new management before voicing their opinions?

 

Or maybe 30% want jeans, 30% want Goth style, 20% want star trek outfits, 10% want leathers, 9% want a pick & mix combination of all options and 1% has set their hearts on an itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini?

 

The combinations are endless!!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Simple problem solving.

 

The head and the governors of a school want a new uniform for all 2000 pupils. 300 pupils are vehemently opposed to it and want to keep their current uniform, whilst the rest would be willing to 'go with the flow' either way. Which uniform would satisfy the majority of people, the current or the new?

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Lymm Parent

 

I?m not trying to patronise you I?m just pointing out that what you said was complete and utter rubbish.

You say, ?I didn't say there was an 85% vote for the new uniforms?

So over 85% don't mind if the uniform changes or would welcome an upgrade. If we want our kids' views respected, then shouldn't we respect that massive majority vote?

Now I?m not playing with words as Eagle claims, but this is pure assumption rather than a statistical fact.

 

If the kids are going to learn anything from this saga let?s hope they at least end up with a better understanding of some basic mathematical principles.

 

Bill :)

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I really don't see what all the fuss is about. We all know petitions mean nothing, surely?

The fact is that only a minority of people have expressed any view one way or the other. If I were a member of the governing body I think I would adopt the policy of "You can't please everyone so you might as well please yourself"!

 

Kate says she was attracted to Lymm by the excellent grammar school but would not now be attracted by the successor comprehensive school. Pretty good argument for bringing back the grammar school?

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Well the comments are starting to flow in on the latest news item http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/articles/5666/1/New-uniforms-to-be-phased-in/Page1.html

This has been the most debated story we have published in a long, long time.

On the voting situation - the facts are the majority of people usually don't bother voting because they don't think it will make any difference - just look at the European elections, local elections and general elections - on most occasion most people don't vote - it doesn't mean they are happy with the situation - they either don't think it will make any difference, or they don't feel any of the options are worth voting for - isn't that right Bill?

It would have been interesting to see what the results would have been if there had been an option to retain the status quo.

:roll:

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"We know...we, who are men of the world - that a good uniform must work its way with the women, sooner or later."

- Charles Dickens (1812-1870)

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Exactly Gary.

 

Using the same logic, one could wrongly conclude that all the none voters in the European elections must therefor have supported the National Front and it?s this sort of twisting of numbers to suite ones own argument that didn?t sit well with me in this case.

If you recall the Paddington speed bump issue, much the same thing happened there where a local councillor carried out a petition and then claimed 95% of people were in favour of speed bumps when almost the opposite was true.

 

Don?t like to cross swords with someone new to the forum but that just had to be pointed out.

 

Bill :)

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What you have to remember that there are guidelines (DCSF) put in place by the government to help schools introduce potentially controversial changes - none of them were followed - great example for the pupils heh! :(

I was not aware of the fact that the uniform was to be changed until letter received beginning of June - a lot of the anger was because of the sweeping statement in this letter of changing the uniform across years 7 to 11. A lot of anger could have been avoided if the statement published today in Warrington Worldwide had been issued in January 2009. All the 'consultation' has been a token gesture and rushed. The school motto 'Working together to achieve success' - I think a great deal of work needs to be done to ensure parents and pupils believe that this is still the case!

Bespoke school uniform from school shop... trading standards are you reading.

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Exactly Gary.

 

Using the same logic, one could wrongly conclude that all the none voters in the European elections must therefor have supported the National Front and it?s this sort of twisting of numbers to suite ones own argument that didn?t sit well with me in this case.

If you recall the Paddington speed bump issue, much the same thing happened there where a local councillor carried out a petition and then claimed 95% of people were in favour of speed bumps when almost the opposite was true.

 

Don?t like to cross swords with someone new to the forum but that just had to be pointed out.

 

Bill :)

 

OK, nitpicker, strike the word "vote" and replace with "opinion". It was clearly a loose use of the word, not a claim to Electoral Society validation. The point stands - less than 15% of pupils were interested enough to sign.

 

One could of course quite legitimately conclude that all the non-voters did not feel strongly enough about stopping the BNP to run out and vote elsewhere. Which is what happened. And that is how the highly vocal minority of BNP supporters managed to sit in the EP claiming they represent the rest of us. Are you saying that the highly vocal minority of 300 pupils should win the day?

 

I think you do enjoy crossing swords Bill, I think it's probably something of a hobby - but you feel free, cos I can swash and buckle with the best. The "Padgate speed bump" furore must have passed me by.....

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Without wishing to get embroiled in this debate, it is interesting to note that Manchester Grammar School, undoubtedly one of the finest schools here in the North West, has a very basic uniform, indeed they make a point of keeping uniform costs as cheap as possible for parents, they even have the following on their website:

 

"Here at MGS we very much appreciate that the cost of uniforms can be a burden for parents, especially at the beginning of their son's secondary education. We have always taken a pride in keeping the design of our uniform to a minimum to enable the vast majority of our mandatory garments to be purchased in high street stores. The only specification we ask is that any garment be in the the "School" colours, navy and white."

 

In the 6th Form, business suits are worn. :wink:

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Without wishing to get embroiled in this debate, it is interesting to note that Manchester Grammar School, undoubtedly one of the finest schools here in the North West, has a very basic uniform, indeed they make a point of keeping uniform costs as cheap as possible for parents, they even have the following on their website:

 

"Here at MGS we very much appreciate that the cost of uniforms can be a burden for parents, especially at the beginning of their son's secondary education. We have always taken a pride in keeping the design of our uniform to a minimum to enable the vast majority of our mandatory garments to be purchased in high street stores. The only specification we ask is that any garment be in the the "School" colours, navy and white."

 

In the 6th Form, business suits are worn. :wink:

 

 

 

Yes, and the uniform needs to be cheap because the fees are not. MGS takes the top 5% of boys only, and there's a fee to apply for admission..... You will also find they have Sturridge's as preferred supplier, providing the games kit package for ?39.95 - and the shirt from that package is only available there. Are you suggesting LHS throw out all the girls and 95% of the boys, dispense with the uniform and charge a few grand per term? If not, then I don't really see how you're furthering the debate by cherry picking one tiny and rather random factoid. You might as well point out that in Malaysia they go to school barefoot and nobody objects!

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Well that?s what discussion forums like this are all about. You don?t have to agree with everyone and if we did there wouldn?t be much to debate but Hey Ho, it fills the gaps in some otherwise boring days!

 

The issue obviously doesn?t directly affect me but as an ?outsider? at least I can?t be accused of any bias. I think both sides make some valid points but it?s just a pity the situation has been allowed to develop the way it has. If nothing else it?s all part of a learning process for both the kids and the administrators.

 

Bill :)

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Yes, and the uniform needs to be cheap because the fees are not.

 

But the point is that not all parents pay fees, and for those of modest means, the uniform is kept modest in price so as not to deter those parents from applying for a place for a son, at what is, as you rightly say, a top school.

 

In effect and in a roundabout way, what I'm saying is that a top school, whilst wanting its pupils to be smart, clearly doesn't consider a uniform as a high priority and keeps it as affordable as possible. Now Eton on the otherhand...... :wink::D

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I note from the LHS website that the school only RECOMMENDS that uniforms be purchased from the school. In other words, if you can get it cheaper elsewhere, fair enough

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I think both sides make some valid points but it?s just a pity the situation has been allowed to develop the way it has. If nothing else it?s all part of a learning process for both the kids and the administrators.

 

Bill :)

 

Indeed. :wink:

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You might as well point out that in Malaysia they go to school barefoot and nobody objects!

 

Are you sure that is correct, I understand that they have a very traditional and strict school uniform code.......which by and large includes footwear....it is quite an advanced country you know. :wink:

 

PS I further understand that schools wear the same national uniform, with a badge for each school and school specific ties.....now there's a thought. :idea:

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