fugtifino Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 You're just living in the past and labouring under an etymological fallacy. And wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 How can you categorically state that everyone else is wrong (not necessarily meaning people on here I mean all the various church/religious groups, their websites, google and the likes) and that your definition and meaning is the ONLY correct one Cleo? I find that a bit odd. I'm not saying yours is wrong, but it's still odd to say all that you did as it's a teeny bit disrespectful to 'anyone' who has a slightly different belief in the meaning for whatever reason. I quite liked the last paragraph of this (I think it was a Catholic Website) in answer to to the question 'What exacly does Amen mean' Full QuestionWhat exactly does amen mean? Answer Amen is a word that came to English from Latin, which got it from Greek, which got it from Aramaic, which got it from Hebrew (technically, Aramaic may have had it anyway, before it became the standard language of the Jewish people a few centuries before the time of Christ). It is difficult to translate this word directly, which is often a reason that words are borrowed from other languages (i.e., if there’s no direct way to translate this foreign word, just borrow it). The specific Hebrew word amen (’amen ) appears to be derived from a related verb--’aman , which means "he confirmed, supported, or upheld." This verb is also associated with the Hebrew word for truth (’emet ), which carries the idea of certainty or dependability (i.e., that which is true is that which is certain or dependable). ’Amen itself is an interjection used to agree with, affirm, approve, or emphasize something else that has been said. Thus when Jesus begins certain sayings by declaring "Amen, amen, I say to you . . . " various Bible translations often render the "amen, amen" different ways. Because of the word’s association with the Hebrew terms for truth, the double amen is sometimes rendered "truly, truly" or "verily, verily." Because of its association with the Hebrew terms for confirmation or dependability, one might also translate it "certainly, certainly" or "most assuredly." When one says "amen" in response to a prayer, it serves as an affirmation of agreement with the content of the prayer (cf. 1 Cor 14:16)—in which case it is sometimes translated "So be it" (cf. CCC 2856)—or as an expression of faith that God will hear and act on the prayer. Bottom line: Amen is an interjection associated with the Hebrew words for truth and dependability, it conveys the idea of agreement or emphasis, and its meaning can be translated different ways depending on the context. Me, well to be honest I always just thought of Amen as being the nice little word at the end of prayers etc that sort giving thanks and was agreeing with what had been said and that it was time to open your eyes as 'prayer/blessing/vicar/whatever' had finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Would somebody please remind me as to what this has got to do with the 'American embassy in Libya'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Many people are unaware of the true meaning and origins of the word "bunkum": http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=bunkum You can pontificate about semantics and etymology until the cows come home - and all words change over time - but the OED defines "amen" as "so be it". So, in the 21st century, in England and speaking English, that's what it means, 'cos that's what the rule book says. Pfffft http://www.aolnews.com/2010/05/11/for-99-years-oxford-english-dictionary-got-it-wrong/ LOLZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Heh, PJ. Algy - American. See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 American Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Would somebody please remind me as to what this has got to do with the 'American embassy in Libya'. Nowt at allreally but it's because Cleo asked the following question early this morning Algy Do you and the other two know what Amin means? (Clue, it's the same as Amen). after having herself used Amin in her post of the night before which she presumed others had not understood. Hope that helps Just another usual day in the happy and exilerating world of the usual where anything and everything suddenly seems to take the same path and blends into one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Fugs and PJ... I don't get it I managed 'I am Caren' not too bad eh for a girlie with bad spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 If you were a man Eric wouldn't be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Oh! I give up, I'm of to bed, just hope you lot don't give me nightmares!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I gave up and went to bed hours (or was it days, or weeks) ago Algy... this is just my automated out of hours 'self' replying. There is often a reason for things that don't seem immediately obvious until they are explained and once explained they become stupid, irrational and of no real interest or importance at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 There is none more blind than he who will not see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Many people are unaware of the true meaning and origins of the word "bunkum": http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=bunkum You can pontificate about semantics and etymology until the cows come home - and all words change over time - but the OED defines "amen" as "so be it". So, in the 21st century, in England and speaking English, that's what it means, 'cos that's what the rule book says. Obviously you read the wrong rule book which, as PJ showed, can and does get things wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 I am now going to demonstrate my ignorance of religion, it always has been and always will be an important part of our family life but only in a basic and casual way, I have often heard grown hard men openly state that they do not believe in a God however when they are faced with the possibility of losing a loved one the first thing they very often do is pray to their God for help and if their prayers are not answered in the way that makes them happy or relieved the first thing they do is to curse that same God., this is the part where I show my ignorance of religion, I was always under the impression that 'Amen' was the end or finality of a prayer or Hymn, just goes to show that even at my age I'm still learning, however could you please agree on what the word means then I shall really have learned something new!. I did say myself some considerable time back that many, many of these none believers in God (I will refrain from saying infidels on this occasion) as much as they deny the existence of God (Allah), when in times of trouble/difficulty, will cry out to the same God they profess not to believe in for help. Isn't that strange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 You're just living in the past and labouring under an etymological fallacy. And wrong! And who do you think you are to say that I am wrong and you are right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 How can you categorically state that everyone else is wrong (not necessarily meaning people on here I mean all the various church/religious groups, their websites, google and the likes) and that your definition and meaning is the ONLY correct one Cleo? I find that a bit odd. I'm not saying yours is wrong, but it's still odd to say all that you did as it's a teeny bit disrespectful to 'anyone' who has a slightly differenct belief in the meaning for whatever reason. And they are not being disrespectful to me by cricising my religion and condeming Islam for the action of a few out of many millions? And for insisting they are right and I am wrong? Think about it lady, respect is a two way street. I will give as I am given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Obviously you read the wrong rule book which, as PJ showed, can and does get things wrong. So, the OED is WRONG! And PJ was taking the proverbial, as usual. You'd have gone down a storm on Call My Bluff. And who do you think you are to say that I am wrong and you are right? I'm just a bloke with a computer, an internet connection, and an opinion. Yet some people want to SILENCE ME! Oh, and I have LINKS! ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen And I know it's only Wiki, but all you've got is all in your head. respect is a two way street. Yeah, so where's yours, lady? http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Stick your links where the sun doesn't shine! Respect, like I said I will give as I am given! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Ta for teh smileees. Meanwhile... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19678412 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 And PJ was taking the proverbial, as usual. But I can't help it, there is so much to take and it's all low hanging..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Cleo If it is only a few out of many millions causing the trouble..... why don't the many millions deal with the few instead of watching the few put out such a bad impression to the rest of the world (It is almost as bad an impression as Mike Yarwood doing Ted Heath......but not quite) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 How can you categorically state that everyone else is wrong (not necessarily meaning people on here I mean all the various church/religious groups, their websites, google and the likes) and that your definition and meaning is the ONLY correct one Cleo? I find that a bit odd. I'm not saying yours is wrong, but it's still odd to say all that you did as it's a teeny bit disrespectful to 'anyone' who has a slightly different belief in the meaning for whatever reason. And they are not being disrespectful to me by cricising my religion and condeming Islam for the action of a few out of many millions? And for insisting they are right and I am wrong? Think about it lady, respect is a two way street. I will give as I am given. 'Think about it Lady' !?!? I'll take that as being a nice compliment and that I have been promoted from a 'lovie' to a 'lady'. If you read my post again you'll see that I wasn't being disrespectful to you or your religion and that I ALSO said I wasn't saying 'your definition was wrong' and I also said '(not necessarily meaning people on here I mean all the various church/religious groups, their websites, google and the likes) Infact your reply to me really has no bearing on what I said at all. Just thought I'd point that out incase you had misread or misunderstood. Have a nice day Cleo, the suns shining here with blue skies and birds tweeting. It's lovely and I might go out with my camera and feed the ducks and swans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Ducks and swans don't like eating cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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