Lt Kije Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Observer I understand your view on immigration, by all means vote for UKIP, that is your choice. As you will understand they are not my party of choice. It is all the other things you get with the BNP, UKIP to not preach hate, and to not advocate rape amongst other things by any definition of the word the party are racist and preach hate. Mr Griffin is undoubtedly a good speaker but so was Hittler. Many Germans who voted for him at the time were not voting to exterminate Jews I bet it was not on his vote for me propaganda . Its all the other things you get when you vote for Mr Griffin. Now will you join in on the condemnation of a racist party or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 You don't really get it do you Kyje? The whole point is to get the mainstream Parties to change THEIR policies - and this really puts the cat amongst the pidgeons. Sadly instead of reviewing their own policies, the main Parties are engaging in this frenzy of indignation - when they might be better employed listening to their focus groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 You don't really get it do you Kyje? The whole point is to get the mainstream Parties to change THEIR policies - and this really puts the cat amongst the pidgeons. Sadly instead of reviewing their own policies, the main Parties are engaging in this frenzy of indignation - when they might be better employed listening to their focus groups. No, YOU really don't get it. As he says, UKIP gives you basically all of what you seek, without the racism, which is why they got my vote in the Euros. Here's an alternative idea - the mainstream parties have loads of policies they will never change, the BNP need only change their racist views, why don't you pressure them to do that? Think how electable they would be (by your terms) if they did that? What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 There are two policy positions that I abore about the BNP: 1) their restriction on membership to whites only - which will now be corrected by the recent prosecution by the Equal Rights Commission. 2) Their belief in "seperate development" or segregation - which they share with all the mainstream Parties, who support the concept of "diversity" - when we should be striving for inclusion and integration in a ONE Nation, ONE culture, ONE community society - regardless of race, gender or creed - and without positive discrimination. It's a complex subject, but basically, the historical contributory factors involved are:- the origins of the Labour Party lay within the white working class, MPs like Kier Hardy attended Parliament wearing their cloth caps and no one could doubt who they were there to represent, or the fundemental economic divisions in society that they wished to address - this eventually led to the post war Attlee Gov and the birth of the NHS and a host of policies to create a fairer society. Moving on through the 50s and 60s boom years, when so many jobs were vacant, we had to invite commonwealth citizens over to fill the posts (mainly Afro-Carribean, which at the time caused concern); then onto the 70s and 80s, when most of our traditional manufacturing industries were destroyed and we became a service based economy - this made many white working class males redundant (in more ways than one), and left them without work, without self-respect and benefit dependent - completely without point or purpose to their existence, this has now continued on WWC estates since. Meanwhile, following the post war "socialist" Government, the sons of miners etc, who had had the benefit of a free University education appeared on the scene and became political careerists who patronised the WWC for their votes. Moving on again, we had the enterism of "old" Labour by wet liberal pressure groups with their PC agendas to positively discriminate on the basis of gender, race and sexual oriantation, giving rise to an agenda that was frivolous and superficial, and neglected fundemental social and economic issues. Then we had the rise of "new" Labour, based on an aspiration to please and pleasure the middle class (C2 socio-economic) voter by taking on a pseudo-Tory mantle, but sadly to take for granted the core WWC labour vote. So basically, we have a rump of folk who now feel totally neglected by the main stream political parties, who they regard as all p*****g in the same pot and pursuing careerist agendas as well as lining their own pockets. So, in desperation at the FAILIURE of the main parties to address the poverty of enviroment and aspiration that is their world; their FEAR and resentment at "outsiders" taking the few jobs that do exist, and the perception of positive discrimination favouring minority groups, has left fertile soil for the BNP. And to believe that the "racist" label will affect this trend is to misunderstand their predicament, they arn't necessarilly racist, but they will vote for the BNP out of exaspiration with the neglect of them by the main parties and as a protest to same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 And of course the ethnic "white" community has been told for so long that it is racist so why not vote for a racist party? Nothing to lose then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Blimey, Obs, have a lie-down before you blow a blood vessel! People are disillusioned with the main parties, agreed. But they expressed that by NOT voting at all. There was no swing towards the BNP. Proportional representation leaves the door open for a minority to grab a tiny bit of the spoils. Fewer people voted for the BNP than last time, but the large number of voters who stayed home instead of voting at all gave the BNP just enough votes as a percentage of those who turned out to scrape into two seats. It will never happen again, because everyone who stayed home thought that a protest non-vote in MEP elections really didn't matter, and it rather backfired! The BNP are on Question Time this evening. I suspect that will be a bit like the old Roman jollies involving lions...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 very good obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Your technically correct LP; but there is an underlying trend for the reasons I've outlined; which, because of this recent publicity boost, caused by the "anti" hysteria, will possibly intensify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 We disagree completely. You admit that I'm technically correct, but insist that you are still right? Obs, you are a classic! What did I laugh at before we met on here? Please don't ever change.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 No, your right about the last EU election voting - but this subject is a moving target and not confined to one moment in time - the situation can get better or worse, depending on one's point of view - so the situation isn't as black and white as your superficial appraisal suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Not the condemnation I was looking for Obs, I already new as most peolpe did how they came to be, but thanks for the history lesson. As I said I have no problem with UKIP, Can I take it you will now stop advocating the BNP and join with the vast majority of people in showing the peolpe who have come under the BNP flag the error of there ways. You could always start a party of your own to help these disenfranchised peolpe, and aslong as you do not preach hatred towards other people you will have no truck from me, infact I would support your endeaver as I agree these people at the moment have been let down by our system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 No, your right about the last EU election voting - but this subject is a moving target and not confined to one moment in time - the situation can get better or worse, depending on one's point of view - so the situation isn't as black and white as your superficial appraisal suggests. Pardon me for pointing out that the matter of black and white seems to be the point at issue, and it is NOT a moving target or a changing situation. The sheer stupidity of deciding a person's worth by the colour of their skin will never change. The BNP is a bunch of racists who have grown their hair back, covered their swastika tattoos with business suits and called themselves politicians. A small number of very stupid or unpleasant people will fall for this for a short time. As perfectly illustrated by the falling number of votes they polled at the MEP elections in question. Stop defending them - I know you enjoy stirring and normally I'm up for a fight, but this time, Obs, it's quite upsetting to hear someone I respect giving this scum the slightest bit of respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Stop defending them - I know you enjoy stirring and normally I'm up for a fight, but this time, Obs, it's quite upsetting to hear someone I respect giving this scum the slightest bit of respect. I would like to add my name to this statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 You could always start a party of your own to help these disenfranchised peolpe, and aslong as you do not preach hatred towards other people you will have no truck from me, infact I would support your endeaver as I agree these people at the moment have been let down by our system I understand that a "very good friend" of Observer was a founding member of the Community Action Party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Watching Sky news and they are live outside the BBC where hundreds of protesters are there to shout at Griffin as he enters the building.... oh and to commit criminal damage and illegal entry and a few other indiscretions which they see as justified. The vast majority of the type of protester I see on my screen are not Black, not Asian; but are wite swampy types with pink hair or dreadlocks. The rentaprotester that normally campaign outside power stations have turned up en-mass We also see union flags and some studenty type stuff.... not what I was expecting to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Not enough blood for you Baz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Not enough blood for you Baz Please explain..... you are being silly again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 The rentaprotester wite swampy types with pink hair or dreadlocks You want silly Baz, look no further than these statements Ps as you are so fond of pointing out my spelling mistakes, it not wite its white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think the descriptions matched the protesters quite well actually. I still don't understand your blood reference, but hey it must make sense in your world anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 All though question Time did not go that well for Mr Griffin there was no killer blow and he lives to fight again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 On the contrary I thought he stood his ground quite well But why did the tory have such a big poppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Just watching the programme after Question Time and also had a quick listen to Richard Bacon on Radio 5 Live and they are both discussing the QT appearance of Nick Griffin. The consensus of callers as well as Dianne Abbott (former black Labour MP for Hackney) seems to be that maybe the BBC made a bit of a booboo by allowing the programme to turn into a BNP bash with all 5 panel members and JD himself wading in to have a go at the BNP. It did seem to turn into a strange programme whereby the national postal strike didn't even get a mention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I've heard some tall stories in my time, but NOTHING to equal the tale of Nick Griffiths having a personal conversion from chief NF hate-monger to Israeli-supporting embracer of a multi-cultural Britain. Following this miraculous enlightenment, he went to his thousands of anti-semitic, white supremacist, hate-filled, neo-Nazi NF members and told them they were now the BNP and explained his vision of a rainbow nation. And instead of ripping his head off and putting it on the flagpole outside the clubhouse, they all saw the light, did a complete 180 and remained members of the new and loving BNP. But still only let white people join.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Think, as you suggested in an earlier post Baz; it just turned into a Griffin bashing session, with other panelists continually interupting him and just throwing quotes at him from his alleged past. The audience were from cosmepolitan West London rather than some northern City, so a calculated public stoning of Griffin was the inevitable trap, which to some will only be viewed as martyrdom. However, when they did actually touch on a "subject" (immigration), rather than just slagging the bloke off; the tables were turned - with none of the main parties offering any answers, and indeed,a toga wearing Straw was in complete denial over Labour's 12 years of failiure to stem the tide of immigration and pursue a rational policy that doesn't allow 40,000 failed assylum seekers to dissapear into midst of UK society. As I've said, the BNP are thriving, NOT because of what they stand for, but because the other parties have/are failing to answer and address the concerns of the sizable exasperated minority that are either not voting, or are voting for them. So the ball is in the court of the mainstream parties - address the issues or fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Aye, Dimbleby was rather too antagonistic, that said, he also turned on Jack Straw who was a complete embarrassment throughout. Greer was also her usual wishy washy pointless self. Griffin I thought did pretty poorly, was clearly extremely nervous, but also got off very lightly from the audience, especially the clown who addressed him 'Dick' Griffin, his question should have been ignored by Dimbleby immediately. Kudos to the Tory lass though, she kicked arse on all sides, giving neither Straw nor Griffin an easy ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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