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Seems that Boris, against the advice of his Chief Medical Officer,  is opting for a "big bang" back to school opening on 8th March.   Instead of a gradual, phased return by age cohorts, the kids will be released en masse, as vectors for yet another rise in infections and yet another lock down next Winter.   Seems wisdom isn't one of BJ's strong points, and political expediency is.  😷

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The schools should have reopened in January.

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22 hours ago, asperity said:

The schools should have reopened in January.

I strongly disagree. R is currently only 0.8 or so and with all schools open the massive infection spike caused by mass irresponsibility at Christmas and the New Year would still be growing now. I would accept that infants schools open soon but definitely not secondary schools. The kids in secondary and tertiary education are uncontrollably dangerous with regard to Covid. 

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3 hours ago, Confused52 said:

I strongly disagree. R is currently only 0.8 or so and with all schools open the massive infection spike caused by mass irresponsibility at Christmas and the New Year would still be growing now. I would accept that infants schools open soon but definitely not secondary schools. The kids in secondary and tertiary education are uncontrollably dangerous with regard to Covid. 

You're welcome to your opinion Con, but keeping children out of school for so long has already done too much harm to their lives. Schools are not seats of infection as has been shown by other countries who haven't punished their children in this way.

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I suppose it all depends on which experts you listen too.

pre-schooll children have a low infection rate. 5-12 year olds have a lot higher infection rate,comparable with adults but symptoms are said to be mild in comparison and 19-24 year olds have the highest infection rate. according to some "experts" but they do not say which particular variant has been detected.

The problem that worries some is not that the children can catch the infection more readily, but who they then subsequently pass it onto once they are infected.

 "oh it's just a bit of a cold" and three weeks later grandma and grandad are in intensive care with the life expectancy of a mayfly. maybe not as drastic as that but it was how my next door neighbour caught it. (mild symptoms for him and two weeks in bed for her).

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Given that most gran and grandads have had the vaccination by now, the risk to them should hopefully be smaller than it was the last time around so it could be possible to let the older ones go back at the same time but personally, I doubt he’ll do that.

They say that allowing older kids back will increase the R number by .3 which if it’s currently .8 means the infections will start to rise again. At the rate it’s dropping at the moment though, another two weeks might be sufficient to avoid that but it’s cutting things very close.

 

Bill 😊

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All the scaremongering about the kids passing it on to granny ignores the fact that there has to be contact between little Johnny and granny. In cases where it isn't possible to keep little Johnny and granny apart (they live in the same house?) then little Johnny will have to stay at home, but that's no reason to keep millions of other kids away from school is it?

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People have to be at least within the same vicinity to pass the virus on Bill, so no, I'm not wrong at all. If granny is safe at home and little Johnny isn't allowed to visit then he isn't going to pass on the virus is he? There is definitely a lot of scaremongering going on of this kind i.e. you only have to be related to someone with the virus to catch it. You know as well as I do that that isn't so. What is being hidden is the fact that the virus doesn't kill everyone who catches it, in fact it only kills people who are susceptible to it e.g. the very old and those with certain other vulnerabilities.

There are places that haven't locked down their populations or closed their schools that haven't had problems. Compare Florida and California for example, one locked down and the other didn't.

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Little Jonny goes to school, mixing with all the other kids, then brings home a dose to infect mom and dad, and the rest of the family; just like other infections like measles.   Mom visits Gran whilst carrying the virus, then wonders why she got sick.   Meanwhile, Dad can't afford to stay off work, so takes it to the office etc, etc, etc.  Stupidity will ensure that this cycle just goes on and on, and on.   :rolleyes:     😷

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Passing it on to granny ignores the fact that there has to be contact between little Johnny and granny. 

That’s completely wrong.

 

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People have to be at least within the same vicinity to pass the virus on Bill, so no, I'm not wrong at all.

Now that’s’ correct but it's not what you said above.

The rest of what you wrote is a matter of opinion. You imply that a lot of people believe that just being related is enough to catch the virus while I maintain that there’s not enough people stupid enough on the planet to think that.

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What is being hidden is the fact that the virus doesn't kill everyone

Everyone knows this, so how can it possibly be something that's hidden from us?

 

Bill :)

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Now you're just nit-picking Bill. It depends what you mean by "contact" i.e. does it mean actual physical contact or being in near vicinity with?

What you maintain is "correct" is also a matter of opinion - yours!

The fact that the virus doesn't kill everybody, or even a relatively large number if you put it in context, is being "hidden" by the propaganda we get on the media every day. The "Can you look a nurse in the eyes and tell her you wash your hands" sort of stuff. If "everyone knows this" why are so many people scared of their own shadows? We have been fed so much misinformation over the last 12 months is it any wonder people are starting to doubt everything?

The only close contact I've had with anybody in the last year was with the bloke that stuck a needle in my arm last week by the way.

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Every poll I've seen to-date, indicates majority support for draconian lockdowns, so maybe the common folk have more common sense than the economically motivated politicians and entrepeneurs.     Viet Nam pursued a draconian lock down model from the beginning and haven't had one death from covid.        😷

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And polls are always right aren't they? 🙄

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So you're pushing for government by public opinion polls now? Makes a change from government by unelected scientists I suppose.

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Looks like I was wrong about the older kids having a delayed return but the way that they’ve done it gives them the chance to see the results of this and to then make a decision to move on or backtrack slightly. Overall, I think the way that they’ve planned all this seems good and even the opposition seem to agree for a change. Fingers crossed it’ll all work out though as I don’t want to start another bloody jigsaw.  

 

Bill 😊

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If there's little or no spike due to the schools going back the "opposition 🙄" will complain that it was delayed too long. If infections rocket they will complain it was too soon. Win/win or lose/lose depending on your allegiance. Anyway whatever is done is wrong in someone's eyes which is why the government would have been better off doing nothing as they get the blame whatever happens.

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England is the only part of the UK not employing a phased return by age cohorts, which just confirms to me that the Education Sec is the biggest idiot in the Gov.  A phased return would allow glitches to be ironed out, such as just how they manage a twice weekly test of all pupils. Then with the Uni students, aside from those requiring with equipment training, there is simply no need for face to face learning.  If wrong, this approach will fail spectacularly, just as it did last year, and we'll be back in groundhog day.  

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It takes one to know one, as the saying goes 🙄

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The obvious outcome of this ultimate lockdown is that science has accepted that covid 19 could be a recurring disease ,hence Boris is talking about annual booster jabs ,similar to flu jabs. That would mean that once the vaccine programme is complete further lockdowns would be of no benefit.

 

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It depends Dave;  whilst it's probable that covid will revert to the status of a seasonal flu,  which can still kill and hospitalise a few; there remains the possibility of variants developing around the globe, or indeed fresh threats like the new avian flu in Russia.   This may keep us vaccine dependent and socially cautious indefinately.  Just like other vaccine requirements, a jab may become a seasonal requirement or a requirement to travel.  I think it safe to say, that nothing will be quite the same again.    😷

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