Peoples vote ?

[Observer II]

How about having a "peoples vote", to decide whether we have a "peoples vote"  ?     😄

[Evil Sid]

Could be a good idea. Depends on what goes into a "peoples vote". lets have a vote on what goes in one.

Actually could be a good name for a trendy new cocktail, a dash of hope with a large quantity of confusion and misdirection and topped off with a modicum of apathy. mix ingredients and allow to simmer for a week before serving.🕵️‍♂️

[Observer II]

   Problem is Sid,  there were only two alternatives on offer in the referendum, and the majority chose LEAVE. Then the majority of Remoaner politicians in Parliament got to work on producing a cocktail of confusion in order to block it.  Seems crashing out is the only way to go now - out of the single market, out of the customs union, out of the ECJ, and if that means a hard border in Ireland - so be it.  Oh, and don't pay the EU a penny too.   

[Davy51]

What we have to be careful of is that a lack of some kind of control between northern & southern Ireland could be an easy way into the UK for illegal immigrants.

[Bill]

Do any of the ferries go from mainland Europe directly to Ireland if so the back door's a long way round ? 

 

Bill  

[Observer II]

So that means having a UKBF worthy of the name.  There were recent cases of illegal migrants stealing (? !) French owned boats to sail into unguarded fishing ports on the south coast.  I think there's a ferry route from Cherbourg to Cork or Dublin, and that provides a "back door"; so a hard border is a must.

[Davy51]

4 hours ago, Bill said:

Do any of the ferries go from mainland Europe directly to Ireland if so the back door's a long way round ? 

 

Bill  

I think if we do eventually leave that ferries will soon be sailing between Eire & France ,even northern Spain. France won't think twice about moving their undesirables onto the next country in the chain ,Ireland.

[Davy51]

I remember reading many years ago about the route that was being constructed to connect Dublin , as the capital of new member Ireland ,with Brussels. Apparently,loads of Euro dosh was spent on upgrading  road & sea communications via Hull & Holyhead. As a result improvements were made to the M62/M6/M56/A55/A5  route to connect Hull & Holyhead  & Dublin to The European capital & Europort.

I wonder if that route will still be relevant after we exit the EU & will Britain become a giant toll bridge ?

[P J]

Going on recent performances the public should never be allowed anywhere near a referendum.  Just look at the chaos and losses it’s already caused.  Things weren’t perfect so the people voted to make things a damn site worse in the vague hope that from the ruin would come salvation.  

[P J]

Given the way things seem to be going, a back door OUT of Britain may be a huge bonus

[asperity]

I don't think that immigration will be the issue when/if we ever get away from the EU because, as the remoaners love to point out, without the EU the UK will become a bankrupt basket case and who in their right mind will come here? In fact the immigration will become a great emigration. Get out of that one without moving to quote the great Eric Morecambe 😎

[Observer II]

😄    You may have a point there Asp; but the 3 million or so EU migrants in the UK don't seem to be scrabbling to go home, more so scrabbling to to stay - so more a vote of confidence in our future.    But listening to all the current arguments in this mess; it seems to me that we've had a PM that has naively tried to appease all sides by pursuing some kind of "soft" Brexit  that basically keeps us essentially within the EU, whilst no longer having a political say in the policies that the EU will still be able to impose upon us.  Meanwhile, the Labour Party expand on this cake and eat it scenario by quoting their "six tests", none of which can be agreed by the EU.  They want to remain in the single market, which the EU insist requires "free movement"; they wish to remain in the customs union, which negates any possibility of unilateral trade deals; so total pie in the sky.  Whilst I feel quite sorry for the PM, she's taken on a task that she doesn't really have the stomach or conviction for, and thus resembles Chamberlain with his piece of paper, declaring peace in our time.  The saddest aspect of it all. is the lack of any political personality with the gravitas to lead us out of the EU, knowing there will be initially hard times to surmount, but with the determination to exit the EU, even without a deal. As for the nonsense of another vote,  if people think that we can simply cancel Brexit and return to the same arrangement we had, they're in for a shock when we lose our rebate and are further driven into vassalage. 

[Davy51]

Love her or hate her, the withdrawal negotiations would have been right up Thatcher's street. She would have had Barnier & his cronies crying in their continental breakfasts.

[asperity]

To be fair to Chamberlain, he acted as he did in order to buy the country time to re-arm. Treason isn't buying time, she's wasting it.

[P J]

There could never be s good deal despite the hollow promises, lies and bs from the Brextremist campaign,  the choice was always bad deal or no deal, both of which make the country poorer in many ways.

[P J]

I suppose the Leave brigade will now start blaming the negotiators, the politicians , The E U, in fact everybody but those to blame for this god almighty mess,  blame for everyone except those actually responsible, themselves for voting for such a destructive course of action.  

[Evil Sid]

unlike the remoaners who only blamed themselves for not getting enough people to vote their way i suppose.🤭

[P J]

It was always going to be difficult to sell the status quo.  So now , like  I said, the Brextremists are even blaming the Remain voters for this mess,  everyone’s fault but theirs.  Just couldn’t make it up.

[Observer II]

Toys out of the pram, plenty stamping of feet etc !  😄     Not  been a day since the vote that the Remoaner media hasn't bombarded us with apocalyptic threats,  the majority Remoaner politicians haven't sought to sabotage our exit;  still waiting for them to threaten us with that asteroid heading for the UK !      😉

[P J]

We have the ridiculous position where the Brexit secretary, famous for not understanding how important the Dover/Calais trade route is, resigning as he doesn’t feel he can support the deal on the table.  You know, the deal HE negotiated.  World gone mad.

[Confused52]

Tosh, Raab did NOT negotiate the deal, that was done by Olly Robbins for the Cabinet Office. That was made clear when Raab was appointed i.e. nominally May , through her agent in the Cabinet Office,  in charge of exit negotiations and not Raab. Trouble is nobody wrote it on the side of a bus for you did they?  Read the deal it isn't bad, indeed much better than I ever expected, it is a success and no bugger can be bothered to look at the facts, the world is currently running on opinion and prejudice. It is pathetic.

[Observer II]

Your right Con, but I don't believe any Brexit Secretary has been in control throughout,  Robins and the Civil Servants, who are less than enthusiastic for Brexit, have been dictating the play from number 10.  The EU told us from he beginning "you can't have your cake and eat it", but clearly the point wasn't taken onboard.  EG:  If we want to remain in the single market - we have to accept free movement (EU rules). If we want to stay in the customs union - we cant negotiate unilateral trade deals. Neither of those two provides a clean exit and still ties us into the ECJ and means we haven't really left.  All we will have left is the EU Council and Parliament - thus having no input into the policies that we will have to abide by. Finally, we have the spoiler about the Irish border, well it's a border and if the EU wants a hard one, so be it.    The only clean break is a no deal scenario, which will mean some initial hardship, but no pain - no gain.  What is now on the table is the final offer according to the EU, so the idea of any improvements from the Labour Party or SNP, is pure fantasy.  

[P J]

3 hours ago, Confused52 said:

Tosh, Raab did NOT negotiate the deal, that was done by Olly Robbins for the Cabinet Office. That was made clear when Raab was appointed i.e. nominally May , through her agent in the Cabinet Office,  in charge of exit negotiations and not Raab. Trouble is nobody wrote it on the side of a bus for you did they?  Read the deal it isn't bad, indeed much better than I ever expected, it is a success and no bugger can be bothered to look at the facts, the world is currently running on opinion and prejudice. It is pathetic.

Tosh,  it’s an unmitigated failure that has a snowflakes chance in hell of passing parliament.  So we have successive Brexit secretaries, each of whom have resigned and you claim they had nothing to do with the negotiations?  Hilarious.  So every time Raab came on the tv to tell us how negotiations were going he was just making it up?  You really  do miss the obvious a lot of the time.  If he is as the affecting the negotiations what the hell was he being paid for?

[Confused52]

It is quite common for Management to report on work matters of which they have no understanding, indeed it is common every month! What he was told to do was get ready for a no deal. The fact that there are so many different views amongst MPs is the reason that it is no difficult to get agreement not the problem of the agreement. Have you read the documents or are you just  repeating the opinions of the offenderati?

 

[P J]

Offenderati?  That’s this forums regularti surely?  Offended by everything,  I think it’s an age thing.  The entire Brexit argument is unraveling with even the forums most rabid supporter accepting that “hardship” is on it’s way.  Britain has been mugged off