Being Manipulated by the USA Again.

[algy]

Do we never learn?, here we are again being pushed into yet another Middle East conflict, sending men and machines overseas to protect the American vested interests in oil yet again, dont get me wrong I'm all for getting rid of the idiot Gaddafi, but if the yanks want rid of him let them sort it. Another point of interest, not many months ago we the British public were informed that we did not need aircraft carriers or the Harriers that went with them as we would never get involved in the type of conflict where they would ever be required again. All politicians of all parties are habitual liars!.

 

[harry hayes]

Think you are probably right Algy. It's seen that way.

On the other hand having served in Korea with the UN forces,, they have disappointed me by doing almost nothing in various other conflicts.

So, for me, in a way this action is OK. If it works, then other dictators will take heed for when it's their turn to have a resolution against them.

 

Happy days

[Dizzy]

Maybe Harry but a big part of me agrees with Algy and we always seem to get drawn into things by the blummin Americans.

 

And if our/their mere presence doesn't work then what...

 

Like Algy has already mentioned thanks to our governments cuts and stupidity we don't even have an aircraft carrier or the harriers now as back up if all hell lets loose. What have we got over there at the moment and is it enough and if not how quickly can other ships/forces get there if they are needed.

 

So where are Ark Royal and the harriers and are they still servicable or have they been promptly decomissioned/sold/stripped already.

[wolfie]

Correct me if I am wrong but haven't the USA failed to commit themselves to any action in Libya.

 

Obama seems to be getting a reputation for someone who is reluctant to make a decison on the issue.

[Dizzy]

So he's probably hoping that our two 'leaders' will push a little harder for action/resolve so we get the blame

[Lt Kije]

Your right Wolfie

[observer]

Maybe he's read up on his history - when the Yanks are late getting involved (WW1 &2), they tend to lose less men and then dictate the peace!

[Lt Kije]

Bad examples Obs, We would of not won either without their help

[observer]

Not the point; the point is about delayed entry not the final result.

[Lt Kije]

In War the result is everthing

[observer]

Yer off on one of your tangents again - reference was made to Obama's reluctance to involve his military, perhaps he's learned from the blood letting in Afghanistan that omlets require the breaking of eggs.

[Lt Kije]

America is not as reliant on Libya for oil as Europe

[Mary]

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, on the situation in Libya, is a measure that was adopted on 17 March 2011. The Security Council resolution was proposed by France, Lebanon, and the United Kingdom.

 

Ten Security Council members voted in the affirmative (Bosnia-Hercegovina, Colombia, Gabon, Lebanon, Nigeria, Portugal, South Africa, and permanent members France, the United Kingdom, and the United States).

 

Five (Brazil, Germany, and India, and permanent members China and Russia) abstained, with none opposed.

 

The resolution demands "an immediate ceasefire" and authorizes the international community to establish a no-fly zone over Libya and to use all means necessary short of foreign occupation to protect civilians

 

** UN (17 March 2011). "Security Council authorizes ?all necessary measures? to protect civilians in Libya". UN News Centre.

[algy]

America is not as reliant on Libya for oil as Europe

Not at the moment Lt. this makes interesting reading though:-

 

FACTS NOT CONJECTURE.

 

As reported in 'CRUDE OIL ENERGY NEWS'

 

(Not the compete report)

 

Oil imports to the United States from Saudi Arabia come in at second place with about 160 million barrels of crude oil annually from the Kingdom. The United States imports about the same amount of oil from Mexico as it does from Saudi Arabia on an annual basis. Other countries from which the United States imports oil are: Venezuela, Nigeria, Iraq, the United Kingdom, Norway, Angola, Algeria and Colombia.

 

United States has become ever more dependent upon imported or foreign oil. A mere thirty years ago, 28% of the oil consumed in the United States was imported. Today nearly 60% of the oil utilized and consumed in the United States is imported from other countries.

 

Turning to the stability of the nations from which the U.S. imports oil, a good share of imported oil does come from nations that have fairly stable political situations. However, as will be discussed shortly, the largest amount of oil reserves are located in the Middle East one of the most volatile regions of the world. Most people are surprised to learn that the country from which the United States imports the greatest amount of oil is Canada. In recent years, the United States has imported approximately 200 million barrels of crude oil annually from Canada.

 

Of course, oil is a limited resource. The bulk of proven, remaining oil reserves in the world today are located in the Middle East. In the Middle East there are an estimated 727 billion barrels of oil in reserve. The amount of oil in the Middle East far outstrips what is available anywhere else on Earth. For example, the known reserves in Central and South America are an estimated 99 billion barrels, in Africa an estimated 87 billion barrels, in the nations of the former Soviet Union an estimated 78 billion barrels and in Western Europe and China there is an estimated 18 billion barrels in each location. Rounding out the list is Mexico with an estimated 16 billion barrels of oil in reserve and India with an estimated 5 billion barrels of oil in reserve.

 

More:-

As Reported in 'INVESTMENT WATCH'

 

December 2010 Import Highlights:? Released February 25, 2011

Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in December 2010 has been released and it shows that four countries exported more than 1,000 thousand barrels per day to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 72 percent of United States crude oil imports in December while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 88 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top five sources of US crude oil imports for December were Canada (2,064 thousand barrels per day), Mexico (1,223 thousand barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1,076 thousand barrels per day), Nigeria (1,024 thousand barrels per day), and Venezuela (825 thousand barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Iraq (336 thousand barrels per day), Angola (307 thousand barrels per day), Brazil (271 thousand barrels per day), Algeria (262 thousand barrels per day), and Colombia (220 thousand barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 8,631 thousand barrels per day in December, which is an increase of 23 thousand barrels per day from November 2010.

[wolfie]

America is not as reliant on Libya for oil as Europe

 

So Kije is correct.

[algy]

America is not as reliant on Libya for oil as Europe

 

So Kije is correct.

Wolfie.

I never implied Lt. was incorrect, my meaning is that the USA would welcome Libya onto it's list of suppliers if and when Gaddafi is displaced, also it consolidates the USA's policy of retaining its own supply to enable it to be a major world power when the rest of the worlds oil stocks deminish, - even a blind man could see that!.

[observer]

Think that's right - US policy is to use up everyone else's oil first, leaving them the last man standing.

[harry hayes]

Second, revised opinion on this one. Dangerous ground. Even if we "win" what do we get in its place?. Everyone won't be our friend, and the danger in that.

 

There is a very large opposing argument, but Gaddafi is a strong man and keeps his country in order - as was Saddam in Iraq.

 

Good thing? Bad thing?

 

Happy days (I hope)

[Bazj]

Bad examples Obs, We would of not won either without their help

 

oh yet another example of Kijes anti-Britishness..... you really do need to move to France, where they have a history of getting the crap kicked out of them and rel;ying on others to bail them out

[Lt Kije]

Are you saying we would have won without the Americans Baz, If so you are just revealing how little you know about either of the wars, Its was not being anti British it was just stating a fact

[Bazj]

I am not saying we would have won without the Americans, I was merely pointing out that it is always you who is first to jump in to remind everyone of the fact.

 

Britain had held out quite well without the Yank troops on the ground, it it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that the Russians would have gone right through Germany and out the other side and ended up with France as part of their Empire.

 

Now much as I would have like to see the Frogs living under the boot of the Russians for decades after the war, with the Yanks entering; the right outcome was formed in the end and if left as was, would have meant that we wouldn't be faced with a great deal of the problems we have in Europe today

[Bill]

Didn?t look to me like we were being pushed by anyone Algy especially the Americans.

 

Maybe I watched different news reports than everyone here because the way I saw things developing, the shoe was most definitely on the other foot this time.

 

Britain was the one that was pushing hard for action in Libya including the no fly zone but the US for quite some time didn?t seem that keen to get involved.

 

Bill

[algy]

Bill, I honestly dont think 'Baby Face Dave' would have spent his brass on this one unless he had been nudged in the back.

[Dizzy]

Mmmm... maybe Davie wants to prove a point, you know 'take me seriously chaps' and all that.

 

Having read a news paper today the stark warnings from Gadaffi about the implications we face for being involved was very worrying indeed.

 

The bigger part of me says we just shouldn't be meddling in it all but then another part of me says he and his regime do need to be stopped.... but at what cost and for how long

 

A rather selfish attitide on my part I know... sorry ... but if there was no oil there would we be still be taking action ??

[Ricky]

Where was the UN when Mugabe was violently opressing opposition supporters? Where is the UN since most of north korea is starving due to the rulers? IMO oil comes first, citing civilians as the reason. It makes me laugh when William Hague and co talks the talk about using aircraft to enforce this no fly zone, talking as if the RAF has a full deck of aircraft, and the navy having several carriers

 

on a sidenote I do think the yanks saved our backside. Not only in military suppoort but with the lend and lease scheme (correct me if im wrong, but I think that started pre december 1941). So much american materials and money was bought that the UK only paid off the debt about 4 years ago. Ofcourse im by no means belittling the untimate sacrifice made by the British. The RAF during the battle of Britian managed to keep air superiority against all the odds during 1940/1, the British Experditionary Force slowed the German Advance accross France, and the Atlantic convoys preventred Hitlers plan to starve Britain into submission (with food, coming from America). But the fact reamins that in the early years, Hitler could of easily put operation Sealion into force, I believe the reason why he didd'nt was that the RAF prevented the luftwaffe gaining control of the skies, and a couple of times they very, very nearly did.