algy Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Corrrrrect! Ricky, but regarding the Battle of Britain and I do not take away credit from our brave lads (and that is what most of them were, lads) we would have been struggling without the Poles,Czechs, French, Canadian, South African, Indian, Australian, New Zealanders and many other nationalies who flew for us in the Second World War and Oh! yes there were American Pilots who came over here at their own expense and volountered to fly in the RAF before there country entered the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Where was the UN when Mugabe was violently opressing opposition supporters? A question that everyone seems to be asking Ricky and makes you wonder eh. Every time the conversation of Libya has come up in the past few weeks everyone has said just that and now the inevitable is looking more and more likely even more people are saying it. I've not heard anyone saying they support the intervention by our lot though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Like Bliar, Dave has this need to get the toys out of the box. Notice when visited Egypt after their uprising, he took a cohort of arms dealers with him - say it all really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 If the majority of us mere english mortals who pay our taxes and live here (well when I say majority obviosuly that is only based on the people I have spoken to or things I have read/heard) should Dave and the other bloke... erm what's his name .... be making such the decisions if it's not something 'we' agree with happeneing. You know what, that doesn't even make sense to me, maybe someone can tell me what I am trying to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Facts are facts Baz, I am glad you agree, As to Mugabe, Sadly for the population their is no oil. so no crisis in the World price when he does kill his own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Bit difficult to kick him out when they agreed to let him in. As for Libya, isn't that what all politicians do to take the country crisis off the front page? Go to war!!! Quite a distraction with fuel the price it is and elections coming along. Not that I'm cynical or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 As we have no oil I guess if we ever came under threat in any way (not saying that our leaders would want to kill us or anything for speaking out against them), but say a different sort of threat, then I guess the UN wouldn't really be too swift on rallying round to protect us then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 If Libya stays unstable just imagine what that would do to the fuel price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well, in order to "protect" libyan civilians, they've just fired off over 100 cruise missiles. Now we'll be told that these are precision guided weapons and will surgically take out targets - and presumably the consequent explosions won't be killing people then?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 You think they would have learned, they said the same thing when they started on Iraq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 The fate of Dictators that fail to play according to our rules - oops, and who control an area swimming in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well Algy that's your view on the situation, I'm just saying that to me it didn't look much that way. Who's right and who's wrong here doesn't really matter because neither of us are in a position to affect the situation out there. At least we can express our views without the fear that come the revolution here, neither of us will need to worry when there's a sudden knock at the door. As regards this all being about oil, I've got my doubts about that as well. By all accounts they don't have that much oil and any reduction in the flow of Libyan oil would easily be covered by the other producers so there has to be other reasons for the actions in this instance. I agree that our society and whole way of life is almost 100% reliant on oil and thus anything that threatens to disrupt our supply has to be treated effectively as a threat against us but I think some people tend to take this argument too far. I believe that what's happened here is that emerging technologies like the Internet and mobile devices have opened up communications in places where speaking out against a government has always not been permitted. These same technologies are used by the media to bring the plight of these people right into our homes and while we're not immune for a certain degree of censorship here in the UK at least we can make up our own minds about what's happening. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Spot on Bill. Also methinks, they are trying to get the Arab nations on side to slow down the Islamic Militants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 It just said on the news that the Arab leader is not at all happy about the use of the cruise missiles and force as that is not what he voted for.... he jost voted in favour of a no fly zone He's not a happy bunny and slightly embarrasing to have a leader saying this openly eh especially as Russia abstained and is dead against it. Mr USA President Cop Out has also said that he is keen to now hand over all responsibility to one of the other allies (probably us ) ... Guess that's his way of saying 'it was newt to do with us, honest' ... cos he knows it will really kick off now Reaction from some of the Libians filmed was one of anger but towards us lot. They said they should be left to sort it themselves as they can do but said now the rebels and others will join forces to protect themselves against the UN lot. All getting a tad confusing Gadafi made a point too though.. he said what would 'we' do if other countries intervened or started to bomb 'us' to sort out our internal affairs... would we then retailiate against them ?... YEP I guess we probably would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I rest my case, 'Baby Face Dave' is just having his first lesson on how not to be conned by the Yank's, I just hope we don't finish up with not only "Egg on our face" but having to eat the shell as well. In all seriousness he should know by now that you should NEVER trust an Arab, they will always back track on what they say. this could turn extremely nasty if all the Ahab's get together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Just out of interest how many war type planes/ships/submarines does Gaddafi acually have He's not got any nuclear weapons as he 'says' he got rid of those in 2004. But he does apparently still have about 9 tonnes of mustard gas at a 'secret desert location' The man and his supporters are completely deranged and the world has already seen what they are capable of.. but how much more damage are they willing to do for their 'cause' and 'beliefs'. They wont stop as its a way of life to many of them no matter who gives them a telling off. No wonder Mr USA President wants to take a back seat, he's probably been on the phone apologising already and blaming newbie Dave who is apprearing to be the front man more and the minutes go by. Maybe we should just all back out and leave them to it and put all our joint efforts into saving and helping the poor japanese people and others for starters Just my opinion anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Amazing just how short some people's memories are. It was only two weeks ago that heavy calibre machine guns were being used by Gadafie's mercenaries to cut down unarmed protesters on the streets. Ok we've had a mega earthquake, sunamie and nuclear meltdown to distract us for a week but lets not try to make out this man's the good guy in all of this. And remember, all the UK's leading political parties have given their support to the UN plan and while a few countries, notably Russia and China abstained, none use their veto to scupper the plans. The Arab League must be a little naive to think a no fly zone can be put into place without some preemptive actions. Before last nights missile attack, Libyan people were vowing to form human shields at strategic targets and if that's the case I'm surprised even more didn't die. We don't know for certain if this was the case but the Libyan military would certainly know that cruise missiles would be used and that these things have no feelings or show any respect for human shields. So did they or Gadafie make any attempt to dissuade people from this suicidal action? Personally I'd doubt it because the guy's operating from his own rule book, the one that gives him the right to do anything he wants, including issuing arms to the public for them to become potential martyrs. I still maintain that my memory of events showed the US reluctant to become involved and even when it did, Obama said that while he would be at the table, he certainly would not be at the head of it. How this can now be turned around to make it look like this was all their idea beggars belief for me? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I still maintain that my memory of events showed the US reluctant to become involved and even when it did, Obama said that while he would be at the table, he certainly would not be at the head of it. How this can now be turned around to make it look like this was all their idea beggars belief for me? Quite agree Bill, I think the yanks have been clever in letting Call me Dave take control, and he has jumped at the opportunity. Be interesting to know how many of the cruise missiles at ?1m each were British. How many more jobs will be lost to pay for these? and he aint finished yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Maybe I have not worded my comments well Bill as I was not for one minute inferring that Gaddafi is the 'good guy' He's a bloody lunatic as are many of his followers. Short memories or not......... What I was trying to say is that no matter what intervention is employed he and his extremist followers will never ever truly back down and while things 'may' quieten down for a while if the allies are 'successful' HE (if he's still alive) and his brainwashed followers will carry on doing what they do at some stage 'regardless' and probably with more force and on a wider scale than they have already. Maybe like you say Obama has not really been that involved but I've only heard and read bits of news and each time it has mentioned the USA's swift intended 'handover from responsibility:? I guess you will have seen a lot more of the news than I have Bill so are you saying that Dave has actually been leading the push all along ? Maybe he should check out how much is left of HMS Ark Royal and the Harrier Jets just incase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 They were only ?300,000 at dinner time! I pay almost that each time I take the car in for repair. I think they said five were ours could be wrong though. Diz I wasn't referring specifically to your comments more to Alges original posting. The whole things goten into a right mess now especially since the protesters ended up becoming almost as heavily armed as Gadafie's troops. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Somebody wrote somewhere I remember that the very protestors in the East were the same Musslims that were fighting coalition troops in Iraq.... If that is the case, god knows what will happen after all this! We could well be helping into power the very same enemies that were killing our troops in Iraq! What a crazy world we live in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Very crazy indeed Baz and very worrying too. There was talk about the UN providing arms for the rebels but if they themselves )the rebels and people of the country) start to question the tactics of the UN nations which lets face it WILL kill civilians and damage their areas no matter how 'careful' or 'precise' they are with their targeting then these very same rebels/people could use the weapons they are given against the same forces who are trying help them. Every news story so far has ended with the words 'so what next'... 'where will it end' ... and 'what happens in an inevitable stalemate situation' ? I cant see any win situation by any side to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Since the intervention has oil gone up or down in price, might be worth keeping an eye on it for a few days or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 And now the second wave of UN air action has commenced after Gaddafi anounced his second ceasfire but within an hour of him saying so the UN forces released another attack as no one believed him after there were reports of fierce clashes between rebels and pro-Gaddafi troops in urban areas. Maybe the rebels are still attacking his forces so they have no choice but to fight back.. thus forcing the UN allies into more action but maybe instigated by the rebels 'cause' How do they know who is actually now attacking who, or is this Gaddaffi's plan ?? Time for bed as my brain is obviously going into overdrive http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8394380/Libya-Col-Muammar-Gaddafi-faces-second-night-of-air-attacks-from-British-French-and-American-forces.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/20/british-action-in-libya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Don't be looking for logic or consistency in all this guys - there is none - other than the exploitation of natural resources and markets for arms. IF, and it's a big IF, we wish to rid the world of totalitarian Dictators who suppress the freedom of their people, we would be invading - Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Burma, Zimbawe, N.Korea, and China etc etc. It would cost ?trillions and millions of lives, and keep us occupied for several generations. In the case of Libya, they've now disturbed the wasp's nest, and unless Queen bee Gadafi and sons are eliminated, WE can expect to be stung in due course, with retalitory terrorist bombings etc - which particularly annoys me cos it's compromised my holiday plans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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