Observer II Posted March 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 Whilst talking nonsense, it seems nonsense has made it's way into mainstream politics - In response to the murder of Ms Everard and subsequent hysterics over women's safety; the first Minister of Wales is suggesting a 6pm curfew for ALL MEN, in order to make public streets safe for women. In Scotland a new law restricting free speech, even in one's home, has been passed by the Scottish Parliament. Perhaps time we WOKE up to the real threat to our freedoms. 😷 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, asperity said: So it was all in everyone's imagination that cases and deaths rose inexorably after the introduction of mandatory mask wearing and lockdown then. Correlation is NOT causation. If you cannot see a reason why mask wearing would increase cases, and you and I both can't, you should reject that false hypothesis. I certainly have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 Blimey Asp you make it sound like the masks were responsible for the increase in cases. What nobody can see though is how different things might have been if masks weren’t used. The masks that we get today have to meet certain standards and they’re not that much different to those worn by most NHS staff. Even a perfectly fitted good quality mask can’t catch 100% of the virus but as I keep saying, it’s all about reducing the amount rather than something that either works or doesn’t. As for your Snood mask, what type is yours? I’d heard they were doing a really expensive version treated with snake oil for people stupid enough to believe it could kill the virus. Bill 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 My mask is 12 months old now & still as good as new . Give it a wash now & then , then spray with dettol & keep taking medicinal spirits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I have three masks (plus a couple of disposable ones in the car for when i forget to take a mask with me) Each one of the three is used for a day and then washed. The clean ones are kept in a clean container and used when the "dirty" one is drying. Might be a bit over the top but that is me all over. Doesn't really bother me wearing a mask, apart from glasses fogging and sounding like darth vader when i breath in and out, got used to it at work in the radiation labs at Daresbury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I got given a set of three masks as a Christmas present, but I prefer the simple common blue ones because they’re easier to breathe through and don’t steam my specks up so much. I only use the mask for an hour a week while shopping so I’m quite happy that the virus shouldn’t survive on them from one week to the next and as a result I’ve only got through a handful of these. Asp’s “snake oil 😉” mask seems a good idea although a lot would be put off by the cost. They certainly fit better than most other masks and if the coating is safe and shown to kill the virus then who cares if they don’t have all the necessary medical approvals. They’d certainly be quite effective on the aircraft and allow you to sit a lot closer. At the end of the day though, people are not going to pay a hundred times more for any mask, especially if they don’t believe that the virus is that much of a threat or that it can be simply carried on the breath. Still, if they’re seen as being a trendy must have fashion accessory worn by celebs and footy players then maybe that’ll encourage the younger generation to wear them. Bill 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Saw an article the other week about a face mask with blue tooth so that you don't have to take it off to use your mobile and if you have a spare 1.5milliion you can get a diamond studded one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 12 hours ago, Confused52 said: Correlation is NOT causation. If you cannot see a reason why mask wearing would increase cases, and you and I both can't, you should reject that false hypothesis. I certainly have! I didn't say that mask wearing and lockdown CAUSED the rise, I mean that mask wearing and lockdown didn't have any apparent effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I only wear my Snood when I go on my weekly trip to the Asda, and when I get home I wash it in hot (above 60 degree) water with Dettol. This isn't to kill Covid, but wearing a face mask for an hour or two is bound to lead to a build up of germs of all sorts which will enjoy the damp environment I have created for them so it's only common sense to keep it clean. It could well be that people who wear the same mask every day and keep it safe in their coat pocket are actually giving themselves respitatory infections which may lead to hospitalisation. And we know that hospital isn't a place you want to be when you're unwell 😉, who knows what viruses you could pick up there especially when your defences are low? After all if Bill is right about the Covid particles floating around outdoors then who knows how prevelant they are in an enclosed hospital! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 This might work.................... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer II Posted March 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Not to worry, when Summer arrives and some sunny virus killing UV rays; the lemmings can pile down to the nearest beach again; or a pop festival etc; just to ensure it stays in circulation for next Winter. 😷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 My understanding was that outside the body, the virus can only survive for a limited amount of time and provided it’s not covered in snot, masks shouldn’t really need washing every time they’re used. From what I’ve read, the covid virus only survives a few hours on fabrics depending on the temperature and humidity so leaving it in a sunny location or on a hot radiator it should kill the off any virus within a few minutes. Interestingly, the makers of the treated Snood masks don’t recommend washing them, but if you must, then to not use hot water or detergents to preserve the coating. These masks can only be washed a few times and at over £20 per mask it makes sense to not wash them too often. Personally I think I'd rather just keep my distance than pay that sort of money. Bill 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Bill firstly I'm not talking about Covid specifically but rather about all the other nasties that live in our airways and which will, and do, thrive on a warm and damp piece of cloth. So having given these nasties a chance to thrive on your facemask, is it really wise to put that germ and virus infected piece of cloth over your nose and mouth the next time you go out. Originally Virustatic advised that the masks shouldn't be washed more than 3 times, but have since changed that advice to washing them as required provided that the water temperature is 60+. Each to their own, and as I would prefer not to wear a mask in any case, I'll continue using my Snood and making sure it's kept as sterile as possible. I'll leave it up to the rest of you to go around with the equivalent of a snotty handkerchief stuck over your noses and mouths 🤢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 The main reason i wash mine after every use is the phrase "noses run in the family". Mine certainly does especially when i have a change of temperature such as going outside or coming back in, costs me a small fortune in kleenex...👃...🌧️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer II Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Best keep your masks etc; as a third wave is now predicted; so we've got the Summer to stoke up the spread. 😷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Where would we be without Obs to keep us cheerful? 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Well, the numbers of new cases here in Warrington seem to have hit a plateau, possibly as a result of allowing the kids back in school. It was expected that there’d be some change but maybe not quite this bad. At least it's not going up but if this is the effect of relaxing things, then it doesn't bode well for the rest of the businesses in lockdown. Bill 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Bill, Warrington case numbers started going up again with swabs taken on the 4th March, likely corresponding with infections caught in the 1st March or before. That was of course before the schools opened. I wonder if the problem is that people just let their guard down too early again. The demographic data for Warrington suggests an increase in children up to 15 and adults aged 30-35 but the big increase was in adults from 60-64. I will not speculate on why that happened but I worry that the 60-64 folks do not understand fully that it takes 22 days for the AZ vaccine to give 75% protection, even though they were told at vaccination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Sorry Obs, it seems we have Bill and Con also intent on keeping us optimistic 🙄 Come on chaps, cheer up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 To be honest I’ve not been following the local numbers that closely relying instead on mental averaging of the daily numbers given out on the evening news. All seemed to be going well until a few days ago when there was a hang on moment where the numbers were higher than what I expected. I think your right though in that those vaccinated may be dropping their guard and prematurely mixing with their families which is understandable if they believe they’re safe. I think local figures can be somewhat misleading given the lower numbers and the chaotic way they arrive. At least the national decline in death rates isn’t showing any signs of tailing off and fingers crossed if the vaccines are as effective as we hoped shouldn’t follow the infections too closely. I think another week or so should give a very clear indication of where we’re heading. Bill 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 There was a government minister on the radio this morning who was at pains to point out that there are 8000 Covid patients in hospital at the moment (did they go into hospital with Covid or catch it once there? Who knows?). On a normal day there are 1.3 million patients in NHS hospitals so not as scary as he was making out. Just looking at the corona gov.uk figures for today there seems to be a steady downward trend on all parameters so it looks like you have to decide whether you are a pessimist or an optimist. I'm optimistic that the country could go back to normal tomorrow. I'm sure you will all disagree with me and tell me I'm literally responsible for killing all the grannies but I'm not bothered, there's more to life than worrying about dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Bill, I looked at the average number on age group after the 4th in the data and compared it to the average number for the same number of days prior to the 4th since you cannot look at single days and you cant compare a group's counts against any group other than itself because of the different populations. So the report I gave was as accurate as I could make it. It was not optimistic or pessimistic but a report of facts Asp. As Bill correctly observed there is a sort of plateau at the moment which started with a reversal of trend. The current trend is slightly down but has not got lower than it was on the 3rd. Asp, the predictions from SAGE that describe a third wave are why I would indeed disagree with you about going back to normal today. The scientific view is that you should wait until the over 50s get their second dose to get to 90% efficacy which would be July. Even then there will still be more deaths among those for whom the vaccination did not give sufficient protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Good point Asp if only it was that simple. I think the hospital numbers have declined significantly but with something as contagious as Covid19 they have to be extra careful, and we just have to trust what the hospitals are telling us as to their degree of pressure. That said it must be getting easier because the service my wife has had recently wouldn’t have otherwise been possible. As for opening up tomorrow, well that’s bonkers given that we can see other countries in Europe that eased off too early and before having a vaccination plan are now going into a third full lockdown. If we’ve learned one thing, it’s not to rush into trying to get back to normal too soon. The plan of doing it in stages and observing the effects of each stage makes sense to me. It gives the opportunity of backing off before it all goes tits up again or bringing things forward if the results are good. Ultimately nobody really knows how this will pan out and there will be ongoing deaths that happen but they won’t throw caution to the wind and hope for the best again like they did the last time. Bill 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 I bow to all you "experts" although I didn't realise that no-one had ever died (apart from my relatives and friends) before this virus came along. The world keeps turning, life goes on, and we can't put everything on hold to prevent people getting ill. We all die eventually, accept it and get on with life while you still have it. The people at SAGE, the MPs and their advisers are all happy to keep the country on hold, it doesn't stop their salaries + expenses. Millions of people around the country are suffering unnecessarily from this lockdown, suicides are on the rise, who knows how many people are going to early deaths due to undiagnosed conditions but, hey, so long as we keep the Covid (with or from) numbers down and the hospitals aren't too busy we're all good 👍. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 54 minutes ago, asperity said: There was a government minister on the radio this morning who was at pains to point out that there are 8000 Covid patients in hospital at the moment (did they go into hospital with Covid or catch it once there? Who knows?). On a normal day there are 1.3 million patients in NHS hospitals so not as scary as he was making out. Just looking at the corona gov.uk figures for today there seems to be a steady downward trend on all parameters so it looks like you have to decide whether you are a pessimist or an optimist. I'm optimistic that the country could go back to normal tomorrow. I'm sure you will all disagree with me and tell me I'm literally responsible for killing all the grannies but I'm not bothered, there's more to life than worrying about dying. The 1.3 million is a bit high. On 7th March the total General and Acute bed occupancy in NHS England was only 80,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.