observer Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 According to some MPs, the NHS is on it's last legs and may only last another 5 years. Whilst this Gov promised to ring fence funding, yet has apparently been engaged in piecemeal privatisation - are we seeing the demise of a national health service, free at the point of need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latchford Locks Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 NO... The country would never allow this to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Certainly hope your right Latch, for the sake of the country - but we've allowed successive Governments to tinker with it and use it as a political football for decades now. We've also allowed it to be used and abused by time wasters, drunks and health tourists from overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think a lot of problems at the bottom are because people don't self diagnose the same these days & pick something up from the chemist ,they seem to think a doctor's visit is necessary. Luckily colds are now a thing of the past as everybody has flu these days ! Â I see Whiston hospital is adorned in scaffolding again.....looks like the recently revamped building is having another makeover of sorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Think a lot of the problem with self diagnosis is to do with the internet. Â Got a red mark on my arm. according to the internet it could be a nasty bug bite that can turn septic and mean having my arm off, or it could be the begginings of a skin cancer. oh no wait it's red ink from the marker pen I was using earlier. silly me doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latchford Locks Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Think a lot of the problem with self diagnosis is to do with the internet. Got a red mark on my arm. according to the internet it could be a nasty bug bite that can turn septic and mean having my arm off, or it could be the begginings of a skin cancer. oh no wait it's red ink from the marker pen I was using earlier. silly me doctor.  Dr Google has a lot to answer for..  A whole new generation of Hypocondriacs........ ask any GP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Certainly one class of time-wasters, the other is the Saturday night drunks, perhaps a padded police cell would save time and money in A&E. But the big rip off, is no doubt the health tourist, who can enter the UK without any serious checks, enter an NHS facility, without any serious challenges and get free treatment; thus making it the "International" Health Service truly free at the point of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 NO...The country would never allow this to happen. I agree with Latchford Locks but there are many things that have to change especially in people's attitude to the service and respect for and to the NHS professionals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 The main thing that needs to change is the attitude of many of those working within the NHS itself. Â Just because we're not paying at the point of use does not mean we're not paying customers and deserve treating as such - many frontline NHS staff seem to forget this and adopt a "stop complaining, you're getting it free" attitude. Couple this with a monolithic backroom bureaucracy which adds no value whatsoever and seems to exist solely to justify its own existence and you have waste and inefficiency which would bankrupt any business in far less than five years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Not sure that necessarily cures the financial problem though, Geoff? Politicians need, for once, to keep out of it - unlike Labour's distasterous deal with GPs (less hours for more pay) or the Tory privatisations by stealth and competition fiction. To a point Ink your right, but the system is being ripped off at the senior admin management level with inflated salaries and golden goodbye packages. The bottom line however, is just exactly do we want of our NHS and depending on the answer, are we prepared to pay the cost. Let's not forget, we're due an age related illness epidemic as folk are living longer - with more bed blocking etc.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Looks like you will be leading the way soon obs and be able to offer first hand advice from your chosen bed  probably closely followed by me  but i hope it's not too soon for both of us not the best way of gathering evidnce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Anyone can just walk into the hospital anytime, the security appears to be nil, so you don't have to be a patient to see what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 There will come a time in the not too distant future that whatever government is in power, will have to make a decision to privatise sections of the NHS.... it is naĂ¯ve to think that funding can continue to be taken from general taxation to cover the costs entirely...  what many forget is that it isn't just the patient care stuff that needs funding.... with over 1.4million employees, every pay rise of only a pound or even pence an hour adds countless millions to the costs plus there are the ever increasing drug costs and with people now living longer than at any previous time in history, it will need an infinite amount of money that the country cannot afford through tax alone.... or at least not without massive tax rises to pay for it all... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Hence the debate Baz, or rather the need for one. Just what exactly should be the parameters of the service; what will that cost; and how should it be funded? The wider the parameters, the higher the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Does any European funding come into the equation to compensate for health tourists using the NHS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I had friends who have lived in Indiana for about 10 years. They have decided to move back to England where my friend has a new job. His wife has stayed in the States in order to sell the house. Unfortunately she became ill and because her husband had quit his job was no longer covered by his health insurance. An appointment with her doctor cost $55, a prescription cost her $300. She can't wait to get back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Dave, within the EU and some other countries, we supposed to have reciprocal arrangements (hence the E111 card); so treatment can be claimed off the user nation. However, whether this is strictly policed is open to question; worse - the majority of health tourism arrives from non-reciprocating countries like Nigeria, where a regular shuttle arrives at some London Hospitals. They supposed to employ investigators to check patients nationality and liability to pay - again, whether they pay is open to question; it would seem reasonable to expect cash in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 The NHS should at least refuse vanity based plastic surgery.  I should imagine the UK'S ability to make health tourists pay privately would be as effective as the Border Agency's attempts to refuse entry to/deport undesirables. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 because health is a vocation, you will find it very hard to find a doctor or nurse who would refuse to treat someone in the UK based on the fact they couldn't pay for their treatment  In the US, health is a business like any other business and their workers seem to be more geared towards making sure that someone can pay for the treatment before anything is done.  maybe we should employ some of the Americans to be the front line between health tourists and the doctors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Until our Govs start to take entry into the UK seriously; and start to ensure all entrants are checked in, with a computerised data base of all entrants; we'll never get to grips with the rest of the scams they get up to, while they're here. If they did get a grip, a requirement for entry would be the possession of health insurance cover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahl Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 NHS is mismanaged by people who have sneaked up the career and friend structure. Start charging all those not entitled to the service. this means doing as the States and having a finance office checking every patient and getting money before treatment where necessary.  If some person is hurt cet la vie.  There is a need to have regional stockholding and cut out the peculiar way medical goods are purchased and the top jobs should be given to a business manager not a soft touch or a person who only cares about himself as has just happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Some, if not all Hospitals already have someone responsible for assessing eligibility;Â unfortunately it doesn't appear to be done with sufficient zeal. So the latest Gov edict of charging 150% of the cost will flounder if the minions don't enforce it with rigour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Raymond Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Ideally we need to take the politics out of both health and education. Â Form some sort of community interest group that politicians can't touch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Agree, but first we need to set the parameters of operation of the service as a national community, and decide how much we're prepared to pay towards it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 A debate about the NHS, and guess what Obs introduces his favourite subject into it immigration, you couldn't make it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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