Bazj Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Rod, Cyprus is about ten miles long; so getting up to 80 would be a problem I guess, however 17 countries have faster speed limits than we do which is good enough reason to raise ours too, in fact we should go for 82 just to be ahead of the pack....... As for fuel prices, I reckon far more people get miffed at things like extortinate child care costs that make it almost pointless going to work, than choosing to drive a bit faster and thereby paying a few quid extra in tax for the pleasure of being able to drive a bit faster and as for debating cyclists using the hard shoulder; I would be far happier if the buggers used the extremely expensive cycle lanes when they were available instead of weaving all over the roads at rush hour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 I think the rest of the country must read this Forum. Trundling down the M6 today and noticed the following. One of those big traffic signs, saying "keep to the left unless overtaking". The guys with their finger on the button slowed traffic down to 60 then 50 and then end. No idea why. M25 type car park ensued. Also the middle lane was travelling faster than the outside lane, because the idiots had to overtake every car there was and so formed a slower queue. Still idiots unable to use their brain cell (battery must be flat) and hogged the middle lane when the slow lane was empty. M5 was ok, so perhaps the plonkers only went to Birmingham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hello Rod.. not seen you on here for a while so nice to have you back again. I do tend to agree with what others have said about the link you posted. On your document you say "The Transport Minister is rumoured to be trading off residential 20mph limits with 80mph for motorways. The success of UK 20mph campaigns has led to debate. Surely thats just like someone saying "Rod King is rumoured to have said that he does not really think the 20mph rollout will make any differece " You clearly would never say that and it is would just be a rumour used by the other side to perhaps gain some possitive backing. I'm sure you konw that many people would actually welcome an increase to 80mph on motorways but I very much doubt that your campaign to get residentiall streets all 20 mph will have come into the equation at all. Infact what you have said makes you sound a bit desperate for something possitive to win people over to be honest. Sorry If he is indeed trading the two off against each other then I would suspect if people had to vote for one or the other they would choose to retain 30 mph where appropriate and stick to 70 mph on the motorways... unless they are sales reps, lorry drivers or caravan towers of course Night Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodk Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Dizzy I know I haven't been on here for a while, but I noticed the post on the 80mph limit and the fact that the Independent article linked the potential for an 80mph limit with the increased number of 20mph limits and thought that a posting of our press release in response to that article would be useful. But if its not considered useful, or even credible by some posters then that is perfectly OK. People are entitled to their own opinions. My best regards Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Hi Rod Sorry if I offended you by my reply but all I saw on your post was a link to your own press realease and the word 'rumoured'. Maybe you could also post a link to the independant article you refer to where it says that the transport minister and/or others (not your group) says the proposed incease to 80 mph on motorways has been spurred on the by your groups residential 20 mph plan. It's not that your words or links aren't useful Rod as they are as they give us all an insight into what is going on and why but it's a little hard to take some things as being credible at times especially when they only stated as being 'rumoured'. I guess that's a "Sorry" for the 3rd or maybe 4th time within two posts tonight Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodk Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Maybe you could also post a link to the independant article you refer to where it says that the transport minister and/or others (not your group) says the proposed incease to 80 mph on motorways has been spurred on the by your groups residential 20 mph plan. Hi Dizzy I was referring to the Independent article that was in the first post on this topic. Regards Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Ooops sorry Rod I thought you were referring to another article/report rather than that brief one which has reference to the Lib Dems referencing their support of 20 mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Anyone wish to review their opinion in the light of the M5 crash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Anyone wish to review their opinion in the light of the M5 crash? I believe it to be too early to offer any opinion until they offer an explanation as to what caused the tragic accident, obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It’s a bit early to start jumping to conclusions as nobody knows just yet what part speed played in this accident. If the weather was wet and foggy then by and large people do slow down irrespective of the speed limits but again we don’t know and reports of the conditions at the time have varied all over the place. For all we know, the traffic could have been doing just 50mph but nose to tail at and hit an unexpected patch of thick fog or smoke. Speed is the unknown issue in the accident but the effects of fire, especially from lorries, is very clear and worrying and I think if anything, this will be where changes will be made. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Speed is obviously a factor, speed relative to prevailing conditions. If folk are tail gating in fog, the greater the speed, the greater the collision impact and the likleyhood of fatalities. Which poses the question, if folk can't be relied on to adopt an appropiate speed to weather conditions and allow for appropriate braking distances; perhaps we should have a variable speed limit imposed as mandatory rather than advisory (IE on M/Way signage)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Neither you nor anyone else knows if speed was a factor, unless you've got your crystal ball out again. Speed is only a factor in that the vehicles will have been moving at some speed. For all we know, road conditions may have been perfect and the accident may have been due by a combination of distraction from the nearby firework display and smoke from the fire. IE nothing really to do with speed. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 From local eye-witness reports, the firework display had finished and the problem would appear to be fog caused by bonfires in the area. They are even talking about "black" fog.If this is the case, an inability to drive in foggy conditions and the sudden breaking of vehicles plus the following traffic driving at normal speed, would create a domino affect. Several wagons were involved as well and they cannot do more than 60, or is it 50mph. The latest news from theAA.com, is that the M5 North is expected to re-open at 6.0am tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Speed is always a factor; a crash at 80mph will probably crumple up your car and you with it; a crash at 10mph might cause a dint. Having a few T-shirts on this one, I'd suggest that traffic was moving at an inappropriate high speed for the foggy conditions, and too close behind each other. There are split seconds involved in breaking, with a domino effect as all the following vehicles smack in from behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 But the factor being, was that they hit the fog all of a sudden. What can look like mist and will slow you down a bit can suddenly become a blanket. Very difficult to allow for situations like that. 70 or 80, wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome. Just a pity that the Highways didn't have warnings up or 40 signs that they are doing on a regular basis. obs. When did you last travel on a motorway at 10mph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 My opinion is that people travel too close to the car in front in general and possibly in this case. Every accident report contains the word "suddenly". Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Peter, on those occasions when there was an accident or congestion futher on - never heard of traffic jams on M/Ways?! The point being made was about consequent damage, the higher the speed, the higher the damage - simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Observer You’re still banging on about this being a speed issue but other than the fact the accident occurred on a motorway you have no evidence that this was anything at all with vehicles driving too fast. It’s still early days but 48 hours down the line and the police say their focus is primarily on the firework display at the said of the motorway. I find it incredible that a large display of this kind could have been permitted so close to the motorway. There’s absolutely no doubt that people are distracted by even a single firework so a major display like this so close to the road is bound to have had an effect. Imagine the scene, you driving home on a Friday night and the motorways relatively busy but conditions are generally ok. Suddenly you’re distracted by a mass of fireworks while at the same time, you’re running into what looks like a fog bank but in reality is smoke from the bonfire and or fireworks. The problem is not as you suggest due the outright speed of the cars but more likely the distraction factor of a large bonfire and fireworks display. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Speed is always a factor; a crash at 80mph will probably crumple up your car and you with it; a crash at 10mph might cause a dint. Having a few T-shirts on this one, I'd suggest that traffic was moving at an inappropriate high speed for the foggy conditions, and too close behind each other. There are split seconds involved in breaking, with a domino effect as all the following vehicles smack in from behind. Rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The images in the paper today and the reports on the news have been hearbreaking to see and hear. My thoughts are with all those who were in the crash, the families of those who have lost their lives or been injured, all those who witnessed it and indeed all those who tried in whatever way to help whether as part of the emergency services or just because they were there at the time. Heartbreaking, tragic and absolutely horriffic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Entirely agree with you Dizzy, lovey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 One of the guys who was in the crash, says it was fog. obs, if you want to say he is wrong, feel free to do so. Down that area of the M5 there are a lot of rivers/streams that produce fog, and are a natural hazard anyway, but add several bonfires and one could imagine the problems. Do you travel the M5 at night very often obs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I'll give an example. The road at Lostock, (from the Slow and Easy)past the ICI works, creates similar conditions, although that is steam and fog. If you have driven through that in the dark and don't know that it can be there, it causes a serious driving problem. Imagine the same thing on a motorway, when you are tootling along at 60/70 and all of a sudden you run into a bank of fog without any warning whatsoever. You can't blame speed, just the change in conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Could be Peter, I wasn’t there but as a general rule, it’s often foggy after bonfire night rather than that early in the evening. I suspect this wasn’t a predictable patch of fog because such places are normally well illuminated and usually have plenty of warning signs. This was something totally unexpected that caught everyone out with devastating results. The bloke on the TV said it must have been fog rather than smoke, because it was white rather than black. Hardly a scientific observation. Set of a whole pile of fireworks off and shine your headlight at the smoke and what colour will it be? Black? I don’t think so. Don’t know if anyone recalls about ten years ago there was some kind of attempt to set off a record number of fireworks in town centre. The whole town became a total whiteout and nobody could see each other let alone the fireworks. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Suggest you start wearing your glasses Peter; re-read my first post, in which I specifically mention - speed relative to conditions AND foggy conditions. Whilst 70/80mph may be fine on a clear summer's day, providing appropriate distance between vehicles is maintained; it's clearly NOT OK in icy, foggy or severe rainy conditions (or even smoke) - is it? And to repeat the obvious, a vehicle hitting you at 70mph will do a lot more damage than one hitting you at 10mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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