Egbert Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 So teachers, including head teachers, are going on strike because they are going to have to pay more, for longer, to get smaller pensions. Well comrades, join the club. So are most of the rest of us. We don't like it either but the sort of pensions that have been available in the past are no longer sustainable. Quit moaning, get your heads down and get on with your jobs. Think of a way of saving elsewhere. Perhaps take cheaper holidays, or fewer holidays. Or run a smaller car. We all can do it if we try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wireboy Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 They have no sympathy from me. They are striking at my children’s school for the second time this year. Causing me expense to arrange childcare. While I can see what and why they are fighting, they are going about it the wrong way. The school my children go to look for an excuse to close for the day. They have extra teaching training days than any other school and are always the first to announce closure in bad weather and the first when a strike is called. It is parents evening tonight and I have a feeling the teachers are going to get both barrels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Mac Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would support anybody in fighting to keep their agreed pension rights. Just for the record my projected pension is £7.00 per annum. At the age of 45 I transferred 25 years of accrued pension rights into a company scheme with a new employer. Subsequently the company was sold off to a venture capital outfit and was fragmented and sold off. Somewhere along the way it was noticed that the pension scheme was not fully protected and it was plundered and the proceeds taken out of the UK. "But that is illegal" I hear you cry, and you are right. Murder is also illegal but that goes on on a daily basis. I do have to wonder when parents complain that they will incur costs as a result of the proposed teachers strike. I have to ask, do you consider the education profession as a free child minding service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Presumably these workers, along with workers in other professions, were originally taken on under some form of contract of employment, which specified their conditions of employment and pension rights? Any alteration or ammendment would therefore require some form of negotiated consent, otherwise it would appear to be a breach of contract? If this is the case, then the only ammendments to conditions of employment would be for new starters, starting under a new contract arrangement. However, there is such a thing as "political expediency", which involves "the workers" paying for the mistakes of the political class and the incompetance of the Bankers - and as we've seen in Greece, strikes and protests will prove as futile, perhaps they need to follow the example of the Tunisians, Libyans etc?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I do have to wonder when parents complain that they will incur costs as a result of the proposed teachers strike. I have to ask, do you consider the education profession as a free child minding service? I don't think parents do see schools in that way, but these days, when both parents work, one of them has to lose a day's pay or use a childminder etc. which can be very expensive as well as unpopular if their own pensions are small or non-existant. Gone are the days when mother was always at home during the day so it wouldn't have mattered if a child was off school, but teachers didn't strike in those days, they were respected by parents and pupils alike for their dedicated work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Perhaps they should do it for nowt, and spare us all the terrible inconvenience of disrupting our self centred routines?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Mac Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Silverlady, I can accept that some parents do not view the Teaching profession as a child minding service. Unfortunately I believe that some do. To the best of my knowledge the forthcoming strike is only the second time during my life that Teachers have taken strike action, I'm 57 so I don't think that is a bad record as industrial action goes and must in some way demonstrate the committment of the profession. When my pension went overseas to fund whatever the venture capitalist group had on their next list of priorities I was left out of work with no prospects. I was 48 by then and managed to secure a job in retail to try and make ends meet. I went to night school, retrained and started out in an entirely new direction at the age of fifty. Without someone to re-educate me I would still be living on the breadline working behind a shop counter. Thanks to the education profession I am now doing OK once again but I will never, ever be able to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 First point is the majority havent voted for it. Turnout was 53% and only 75% voted for it. There is still a majority who havent voted or didnt vote for it. Another I think it was unison vote had a 29% turnout. Not the support that the unions are claiming. Secondly people are living longer. Retiring at 65 is no longer an option nor is 60. Why therefore on that point at least do the public sector not wish to fall into line is beyond me. Everyone in the private sector is. Finally, the private sector fund the public sector. I believe we therefore have right to feel agreived at subtantially better off pensions. BTW strikes in school when i was a kid was regular occurence. Also my kids have been out three times in the last two years once because they wanted a pay rise as apparenlty £20k isnt enoguth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I agree with Obs first post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Contracts are all very well, but if the money isn't there, what do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wireboy Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I don't think school is a free child minder at all. It is a service that is paid for out of everybody else’s taxes and mine. Am I going to get a tax rebate for the 2 days lost this year? Thought not. I do recognise the fight over pensions as I work in the public sector my self, but to strike (again) and p*** off all parents across the country, forcing parents to find a not free child minder or other arrangements on November 30th is not the right way to do things. Causing parents to do the above and hit there pocket, potentially damage there own job prospects and just before Christmas will mean they have lost all sympathy for the teachers and the teachers are fighting a lost cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 It seems that most people who agree with me on this one do so because it means they have extra child care costs if the school closes. That is not the point. In my opinion, if they have a primary school age child they shouldn't both be working anyway! Although teachers (and in particular head teachers) don't have a cushy life, they don't get too bad a deal and they should have the intelligence to realise that if the money isn't there to pay them the pensions they were expecting, it's just too bad. After all, as I understand it, no teacher retiring in the next 10 years will be affected anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 In my opinion, if they have a primary school age child they shouldn't both be working anyway! With due respect your opinion stinks. If you would like to repeat it to most young couples with child(ren) who are both working you will attract a few choice words and the odd smack round the chops. They both don't work from choice they work because they have to, silly old fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Sorry Eagle, I don't agree. I think most young couples who both go out to work do so from choice rather than need. I accept there will be exceptions, but most young women today do not want to stay at home. So they run a second car to go to work and so end up no better off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Will whomever had the tin hat last please pass it on to egbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I do have to wonder when parents complain that they will incur costs as a result of the proposed teachers strike. I have to ask, do you consider the education profession as a free child minding service? What a bloody stupid statement.... I expect my child to be at school from Monday to Friday from 9-3:30 being taught things other than his teacher is a lefty strike monger who doesn't know when he/she is onto a good thing. I am lucky. I have a few pensions which I have paid into since I was 18 and have a few other irons in the fire to call on if needed. Many other people are not so lucky and don't even contribute to a pension for themselves; let alone paying for other peoples pensions A lot of people who work Monday to Friday 9-5 do not have the luxury of being able to take time out willy nilly to suit the greedy whims of a bunch of striking teachers. We also pay a whacking load of tax to pay these jumped up "professionals" their wages and for that we expect them to do the job we pay them for. If they take time off that then costs me in the form of additional childcare costs we should be able to claim that extra, unexpected cost back from their union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Sorry Eagle, I don't agree. I think most young couples who both go out to work do so from choice rather than need. I accept there will be exceptions, but most young women today do not want to stay at home. So they run a second car to go to work and so end up no better off! Egbert.... I am absolutely gobsmacked..... I have read some claptrap on here over the years but never have I found a better use for my footer message than for what you have written.... "Couples go out to work from choice rather than need?" do you really believe that? My oldest son is 25. last year he bought a house.... not a flash house.... with his girlfriend (who is a teacher, but that's another story!!) He put a £35,000 deposit down on the house but they both have to work to pay their extortionate gas, electric, phone bills. My son doesn't drive but his girlfriend does and they have a car to run..... When I was his age, I had my first house. It cost £9.5k and I was the only one who worked because we could afford it then..... Nowadays is a different story. I am guessing that you are either slightly senile or you are very rich and live in Appleton or somewhere similar and have absolutely no idea what you are on about.... also, your statement about "most young women don't want to stay at home"..... why should they? What gives you the right to dictate that women should not work like men...this is the 21st century now so maybe you better get used to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Sorry Eagle, I don't agree. I think most young couples who both go out to work do so from choice rather than need. I accept there will be exceptions, but most young women today do not want to stay at home. So they run a second car to go to work and so end up no better off! I would like you go away and either get treatment to replace the few brain cells you have left or to have a look for a sign with "The Real World" on it. You are posting utter tripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Surprised Adrian, with your legal expertise, that you didn't cover the issue of "breach of contract", which may or may not apply; so I'll term it a question. With reference to your comment about "the vote"; we frequently elect Governments in this Country on the basis of 30% support out of a 70% turnout; which equates to only 21% of the electorate. I'm not disputing your figures, but assuming them to be correct only 75% of the 53% turnout, will actually go out on strike then?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 of course not Obs.... just like the ones who benefit that didn;t vote for strike action wouldn't give back any pay rise they may have won! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 So we can assume, the majority will be available for work (and thus pay), as usual?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Mac Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thanks for the compliment Baz. Similar to you, I had been paying contributions since I was 19. I transferred my accruing funds whenever I was approached by a new employer. In the end I was caught out and lost the lot. No bitter feelings on my part, I just keep playing the hands I'm dealt. As for taking care of the youngsters I will be taking time off to look after my Granddaughter since I am in a better position to afford this than my Son is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 First point is the majority havent voted for it. Turnout was 53% and only 75% voted for it. There is still a majority who havent voted or didnt vote for it. Comparing that to the 36% that voted Tory in the last election. Does that mean we shouldn't have a Tory government? Just seen that Obs has made the same point, think I will go back to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thanks for the compliment Baz. Similar to you, I had been paying contributions since I was 19. I transferred my accruing funds whenever I was approached by a new employer. In the end I was caught out and lost the lot. No bitter feelings on my part, I just keep playing the hands I'm dealt. As for taking care of the youngsters I will be taking time off to look after my Granddaughter since I am in a better position to afford this than my Son is. Apologies Rex.... nothing personal, but I took exception with the last part of your statement.... I don't think it is the expectation of working parents that school is a free childminding service; I think it is the expectation that the teachers will be in work and doing the job they are paid to do and so people have made arrangements around that presumption....most people would accept an unavoidable closure of the school; flooding etc. but when it means for some that they have to perhaps take a days holiday to facilitate teachers to strike, then that will upset a lot of people... you also have to remember that this is now the 2nd day this year they have done this so it could be two days of someones hard earned holidays they have lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Mac Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 No need to apologise Baz, I knew it wasn't personal. I am well aware this is the second day of action and it will also be the second time I have looked after my little Granddaughter. The last time I drove over to my Sons house and picked her up and stayed off until the weekend. This time I have had to re-arrange a business trip to Singapore as well as take three days off so I can appreciate that it can be awkward. But I stand by my original premise that everyone should fight to keep any pension rights they currently have, I do not want anyone to find themselves in my position facing the "work 'til you drop scenario." I consider myself very lucky in that I really love my current job, it pays me handsomely and I dread to imagine where I might be had I not had the support of the education profession when I needed to retrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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