Brexit again -

[Observer II]

If both the hard Brexiteer and Remoaner MPs vote against the PM's deal, and the clock keeps ticking, does that mean we leave the EU with no deal ?

[Evil Sid]

Not necessarily, all it means is that we could do or it could mean that we have another election and get rid of the dissenters.

I really miss screaming lord such. he was a loony but he was a declared loony unlike most of our mps whom i just suspect are.

[asperity]

That's a nice little Brexit you have there. Shame if anything happened to it.......................................

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/07/michel-barnier-concedes-brexit-bill-could-linked-uk-eu-trade/

[Observer II]

Surely this is the crux of the issue:  we've been the second highest net contributor into the EU for 40 years,  our absence will mean a 20% deficit in their budget (a budget that's never been signed off by auditors),  so they want to drain the last drops of milk from their UK cash cow.  At the end of the day, I'm sure we could buy a trade access deal ,  but that would destroy the whole point of leaving in the first place.  

[Observer II]

Seems the EU now want us to have a second referendum, just like they did with Eire, Holland and Denmark.  So I guess we just keep voting until we get it right.    

[Confused52]

Well they would say that would t they.....

However your BBC went on to say "But Mrs May said there was no question of the UK seeking to extend its EU membership." Now what was it you called stories where only one side was reported ……..

[Observer II]

Not my BBC, it was Yahoo actually - saying that a majority of National Leaders in Salzburg want us to vote again.  The fact is, it's for us to decide, but it all adds to the constant pro-EU propaganda we've had since the referendum, from most of the media.

[asperity]

[Observer II]

Not sure I understand the DUP stance on the border issue; whist there's no doubt there's some local toing and froing,  even some farms astride it;  surely the border defines the territory of the UK and a soft border merely undermines that and opens the future possibility of a United Ireland ?

[asperity]

There was no hard border before we got suckered into the European Project.

[Observer II]

Not even during "the troubles" ?

[asperity]

No, not even during "the troubles". There was enhanced police and army surveillance and identity checks on main border crossing roads, and many minor crossing roads were blocked. But this was for security purposes not for trade control.

[Davy51]

There was the famous case of the travel sick cattle being checked through border checkpoints & then returning to their point of origin across the border on open roads to defraud the CAP grant system. After their transit seals had been changed off they went again.

[Observer II]

Often wondered why we transport meat on the hoof to France, only to have it returned as carcasses - thought we still had our own slaughter houses or is this some kind of vat scam ?

[Observer II]

Well it appears the politicians have turned Brexit into a complete dog's dinner, with their Party and Remoaner antics.  As I recall the referendum ballot form, the choice was to LEAVE or REMAIN,  nothing on it about "a deal".   Now, our weak kneed MPs are in a panic about a no deal Brexit,  with some talking about cancelling article 50 and returning to the EU fold.  But, as some EU Mandarins are now claiming, rightly imo; this would be treated as a new application, with the loss of our rebate and the possibility of a commitment to adopting the Euro; so even worse than before.  The straw being grasped by the PM, to continue with membership of the customs union, denying any right to make seperate trade deals, still within the jurisdiction of the ECJ , would keep us in the EU in all but name, but without any political influence over it.   So, time for the politicians to grow a pair, and prepare to crash out, with no deal, no payment and if necessary a hard border in Ireland.     

[asperity]

Compare and contrast

with

It seems Donald wants us to be at the front of the queue.

[Observer II]

Seems this Irish border issue is a complete red herring:  listening to a DUP politician, he said, that even during the troubles, it was impossible to completely seal off the border and currently, differing VAT rates etc are still dealt with by customs.  So, perhaps HMG can now honour the referendum decision and LEAVE, there was no mention of "a deal" on the ballot form, so they can forget it.

[Davy51]

The border will need to be robust between Northern & Southern Ireland to deter illegal immigrants  from sneaking in through Eire as well as France.

[Confused52]

But there are no passport checks in the Common Travel area between the Republic and UK. We are committed to maintaining the Common Travel Area which pre-dates the EU by a long way. Before the single market we had customs control but not passport control.

[Observer II]

Dave, we can't even stop them getting through the tunnel, the main problem isn't catching them, but deporting them asap afterwards.   Your obviously a legal person Con, but throughout history Treaties etc get broken, when they no longer suit.

[Davy51]

How true .I wonder how many sneak in through Eire as it is ?

[Observer II]

They should be able to catch them at the Ports and Airports, the question is whether they can then throw them back over the border.  Sure the Irish Gov will relish the idea of a super- migrant camp outside Dublin.   

[Davy51]

Maybe the prices in Dublin will stop illegals entering the city.

[Confused52]

There is a handy harbour doing nothing at Dun Laoghaire outside the city and I don't think the problem people will worry too much about the exorbitant price of Guinness!

[asperity]

Mrs May's Brexit negotiation tactics:

https://youtu.be/YCiaWE9w9h0