Brexit again -

[Milky]

9 hours ago, Davy51 said:

France has special ties with Germany since capitulating in WW2  & the Vichy government. After giving De Gaulle a safe springboard for the Free French forces ,the viper soon turned against Britain. Snakes in the grass too many of the French.

Special ties with Germany does not really qualify France to be a EU leader along Germany, does it?

[Davy51]

You don't do irony do you ,or sarcasm ?

 

[Milky]

10 hours ago, Davy51 said:

You don't do irony do you ,or sarcasm ?

 

OK, obviously to thick for  irony or sarcasm, I blame the fact it was late :(

[Davy51]

Not having a go ,it was a tongue in cheek comment.

[Milky]

36 minutes ago, Davy51 said:

Not having a go ,it was a tongue in cheek comment.

[Observer II]

Well, we can now see the remorseless undermining of the people's decision to leave the EU, by the Remoaner majority in Parliament, appears to be paying off.

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

Well, we can now see the remorseless undermining of the people's decision to leave the EU, by the Remoaner majority in Parliament, appears to be paying off.

How is that so? Mrs May said no to a second referendum and it was her deal or no deal.

[Davy51]

Great to see the top Euro solicitor/judge calling us a sovereign nation that can unilaterally abandon article 50 & return to the EU fold. Pity this fact has not been recognised during our time of exiting the club. , with our destiny being blocked by other member's demands at every turn.

[P J]

seems the sane are taking back control,  well it is what the Brextremists wanted lol

[P J]

20 hours ago, Milky said:

OK, Should pay more attention before commenting in the future.

de rien

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, P J said:

seems the sane are taking back control,  well it is what the Brextremists wanted lol

The problem is that the EU27 said that even if the UK did withdraw Article 50 notification they did not have to accept it. So the right to withdraw the notification could be a futile gesture.

[Observer II]

If we had politicians with any backbone, we could "unilaterally" leave the EU - it's called a no deal Brexit.

[Davy51]

I believe the EU courts & parliament are intending to have legislation in place by Monday night whereby the UK government & parliament will be allowed to overrule the democratic referendum & cancel Brexit. We have been conned.

[Observer II]

As we thought - sold out by politicians.

[Confused52]

2 hours ago, Davy51 said:

I believe the EU courts & parliament are intending to have legislation in place by Monday night whereby the UK government & parliament will be allowed to overrule the democratic referendum & cancel Brexit. We have been conned.

Not quite the way I understand it. Some Scottish MEPs asked the ECJ for a ruling on the Treaty containing Article 50 as to whether Article 50 notifications can be withdrawn unilaterally. The Advocate General who gives an initial ruling so as to stop wastes of time said that it could be withdrawn. So there is a full hearing of the ECJ to see if they agree. There is no new law just a case law ruling on what it says. The EU parliament is not involved at all, thank God. However the UK Governments said the case should not be entertained since it was hypothetical and they had no intention of withdrawing. The idiot who wrote Article 50 has always said a notifications could be withdrawn but the EU Council say they will not accept any such withdrawal anyway.

[Davy51]

The BBC reporter in Brussels stated that the intention of the EU was to have in place the means for the UK to unilaterally reverse the referendum decision. The instrument of betrayal is expected to be in place by Monday night. (BBC one o'clock news. Damian Grammaticus). It has in fact stemmed from the ruling that you mentioned ,but if it comes off it will be the fastest piece of EU legislation in history.

[Evil Sid]

it does make you wonder then how much worse off the EU will be without the UK given the speed of which this bit of legal hocus pocus was put in place.

I suppose there will me a more vigorous campaign from both sides now to support/denounce it.

Saw a bit on the news yesterday when they were interviewing people in runcorn.

First one they interviewed came out with the statement that they were worried and then admitted that they had not voted in the referendum. That being the case they have no say in the matter. Their excuse was that they were not sure about the issues.

second guy interviewed ran a business and had voted, he wasn't worried as he had little to do with the EU as such. Nearly all his business was with American companies and he stated that he was seeing an increase if anything in his trade.

in all the press coverage I have seen the focus has been on how bad leaving will be or how bad such a deal will be. Not one on how good things could be, and as always it is speculation.

We will not know until it happens is the way to look at it. Then good or bad deal with it.

[P J]

Just as you don’t know how it will feel if you hacksaw your own nose off, but the safe bet is it’s going to hurt

[Confused52]

15 hours ago, Davy51 said:

The BBC reporter in Brussels stated that the intention of the EU was to have in place the means for the UK to unilaterally reverse the referendum decision. The instrument of betrayal is expected to be in place by Monday night. (BBC one o'clock news. Damian Grammaticus). It has in fact stemmed from the ruling that you mentioned ,but if it comes off it will be the fastest piece of EU legislation in history.

It certainly will be! As of today there is nothing on the EU Parliament document observatory, Nothing on the EU Council site and no proposed document from the EU Commission. To make a law on Monday would be astonishing given that the Council cannot approve text until Friday 14th and the Parliament cannot consent to it without having seen it until Monday 17th. Mrs May is able to stop the decision having effect by saying that national processes are complete. She can do this by invoking the Royal Prerogative as this is an International Treaty, all the domestic implications were in the Withdrawal Act. This chicanery is unbelievable and more damaging to the constitution than I could have imagined. The claims being made by the remain side and the Labour front Bench are beyond belief. We are to suffer ignominy because of the potential application of a clause (the backstop) that no one including its promoters want to see used, The whole thing is utter bull****.

[Davy51]

This was actually referred to on Question Time by Ian Blackshaw(?),  SNP leader in Westminster, but seemed to be quickly brushed under the table.

[Observer II]

What all this has exposed, is the true nature of politics and "democracy";  throughout western society;  in which we are allowed to go through the charade of electing a bunch of arrogant , we know what's best for you, politicians, pursuing their own elitist agendas.   It is therefore not surprising, that populist politics have emerged whereby people are attempting to control their own destiny, as in the US, the UK referendum and now with the French riots.  From the 2008 crash, caused by rich speculating bankers, it is the ordinary peasants that have had to bare the burden, rather than the Metropolitan liberal elites. Now that reality has been exposed, perhaps the Plebs will continue to react to it.

[Confused52]

I am afraid that the crash being caused by rich speculating bankers is probably a class battle too far. The underlying problem was that there were a large numbers of poor loans that US banks were required to give to people by law. They should have not given out the loans. The crooks then packaged up some bad loans with a larger number of good quality loans such that the performance was slightly impaired but good investment grade taken together. Then they sold those to institutions who were required by central banks only to buy good investment grade bonds of which there was a shortage. This effectively incentivised people to create money as loans to sell more of those products which did not have the worth that they were sold with but it was the system that demanded that the type of derivatives that were made to exist. That is why they clamped down on what assets banks could hold in each class to make them more able to stand shocks in terms of loss of value to their assets. Then there was a move to make lending on homes much more difficult in order to reduce risk. That has increased the deposit required for a mortgage whilst the interest rate is low. However the old system of taking out an insurance policy for up to 95% of the loan which was common in the 70's when institutions had more trust doesn't work. That leads us to having the mortgage on a home being less than the social rent and hence the housing shortage you go on about. The mistrust of banks is therefore responsible for the housing shortage because if young people could get houses with only 5% deposit things would look different. However the rules about creating money were to blame so that was down to whoever was in government in the years leading up to 2008. I will give you a clue, it wasn't the Tories here and in the US it started under Clinton but Shrub did nothing to stop it.

I really don't see the stupidity of the UK electorate, which has always given a mandate at one election and then protest voted at the next one to reduce the chances of extreme behaviour and the similar behaviour in the US which is encouraged by the constitution has any bearing on the French. The French take to the streets violently at least once in every decade and boycott something to thwart their government more often than that. That is the reason that France's pension timebomb is worse than ours and they are so much weaker than Germany. Dressing up normal moaning by the plebs (as you call us) as something of significance is over-egging the pudding. The latest opinion polls suggest that the public has no concerted opinion about what they want to happen next on Brexit so where is the populist element then?

Please just ignore the rant, I am starting to get annoyed by the lot of them at Westminster for now, rationality may resume soon!

[asperity]

It seems that Treacherous Treeza is now officially World Can Kicking Champion.

[Observer II]

It's what happens when you have a Remoaner PM trying to obtain a "soft" Brexit, by playing soft ball with the EU, with cakeist demands.  It's either REMAIN or LEAVE,  all the nonsense in between are worse than either extreme. We voted to LEAVE, not for any "deals", so our politicians should respect the result and get on with a no deal Brexit. 

[Confused52]

No we didn't vote for a way of leaving, just that we should leave the EU. Oh, and I didn't vote to leave either. Nor did we vote for a collapse in the car industry which is what the manufacturers are now threatening. Dogmatic posturing is always bad for the economy. You seem to be suffering from believing Boris, many do but usually regret it in the cold light of day. Don't bother with the Project Fear allegations either I have had enough of the self-deluded after looking at the last two days in the House of Commons.