Jump to content
Dizzy

WBC to close Sandy Lane Tip, Stockton Heath - 1 August !!

Recommended Posts

Anne.... I am not an independent councillor.... independents rarely get voted for in Warrington because the mass of the populous are born and bred Labour and still blame Thatcher for everything that has gone wrong in the UK since the 80's.....and as for Cleggy and the Lib Dems, I honestly think they will have less MP's after the next election than the Greens....

 

I am a local business owner whose business partner used to be a parish councillor..... and to hear him speak of the politicisation at even the parish level, is enough to make me realise it is all a total waste of time.

 

The council screw every last penny out of the residents that they can, they constantly allow new housing estates to be built, with all the rates that entails and yet they still plead poverty... but can waste almost £1million on 20 signs and then previously over £1.5million sticking traffic lights in at ASDA Westbrook and balls up the road markings at Bridge Foot and allow some no-mark to stick scrap tyres on Kingsway Roundabout as well as underhandedly try to sell off Walton Hall and give away Bewsey Old Hall.... the list of complaints is endless and all we get back is an empty high street because they won't lower business rates in the town centre and a pile of tatty skittles which mean absolutely nothing to the town of Warrington and do not represent is present or its past...

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... politicians of any persuasion are all in it for themselves and their "legacy", whether its having a street named after them or a room in Orford Hub; they are all disgusting creatures in my book and represent only themselves and certainly not the interests of my home town in my eyes

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For many years I worked as an officer in local government ( NOT Warrington) and attended many meetings throughout Cheshire over the years with other authorities. I don't remember anyone having anything good to say about Warrington or it's councillors. Many comments could be quite scathing!

Some councils are actually quite good, neighbouring Halton for instance are quite visionary and forward thinking when you see what they have done to clean up Runcorn and Widnes and I do know they used to have many area meetings to discuss and listen to the folk who lived there to see what they wanted.

Called serving the people of the town!

But not in Warrington!

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Baz,

I have seen similar comments from you before, so I know your views on politics:)  Is a dictatorship the answer?  No room for party politics there!  Seriously though, it is impossible to please every member of the population isn't it?  Each of the issues you mention - increased house building, speed limits etc will be welcomed by some and not by others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately Ann, WBC continues to create its own democracy gap and it is the fault of all parties, as it is at national level. What we know is the council habitually hides things from voters, makes decisions that affect their lives in private, won't listen to them, pays lip service to 'consultation', treats parts of the town differently and sets itself strategic objectives then ignores them in favour of short term gain.

 

We also know that sometimes the only way to get the council to behave ethically and in the best interests of residents is by embarrassing it into doing so, as was the case with the planning scandals and the attempts to sell off Walton Hall and Gardens. That doesn't always work of course as we have seen with the issues of The Forge car park and the way the council made a fool of itself nationally with the case of Steve the lollipop man. But it works often enough for local people to assume that sometimes you have to circumvent democracy to get the right thing done.

 

While I appreciate that some councillors are active in trying to get the council to look again at the clandestine decision to close Sandy Lane, experience tells us that it's not enough to rely on the local democratic process because I feel - and I'm not alone - that WBC sees residents as either the enemy or merely a troublesome and disruptive income stream, especially in certain parts of town.

 

If the council wants to be seen as working in the interests of the people of Warrington it simply needs to start doing so. Working against their interests and hiding information and decisions from them then moaning about the reaction won't help, nor will blaming the other parties when things go wrong and/or skeletons start falling out of cupboards. All the local political parties have to deal with this if you want local people to trust them.

 

I have little faith the council will reverse this decision, but the only way we have as residents is to try through whatever means because the council has shown over and over that it sometimes needs to be forced and embarrassed into things.  

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well put Grey_man and there's nothing in there that I would disagree with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the topic of WBC selling off, or disposing off the assets of Warrington - I would like to add the following (even though some of you may consider it to be 'off topic'). 

Its relevance is in line with decisions being made, on our behalf, without proper consultation.

 

Please add to the list of potential 'give-aways' the Cavaille-Coll Organ in the Parr Hall.
In 1926, Warrington Corporation bought this instrument for £2,000.
In 1969, Warrington Corporation had negotiated the sum of £105 with a local scrap dealer to take it out of the Parr Hall.
As a result of this coming to the notice of Councillor Harold Edwards, £9,000 was raised through the generosity of the people of Warrington, and the organ was renovated.
In 2007, it was again decided that the organ should go - this time to be given away to someone who could afford the £1 million to remove, transport, renovate and install it.
We are regularly told that there is no money for the organ -  in spite of the recommendation to WBC by the Independent Organ Adviser, that it should be regularly tuned and maintained. So, if no one can afford to take it away, and Warrington Borough Council fails to maintain it - it will be just another loss to our Cultural Heritage.

I consider this important enough to mention in the light of comments made about WBC's efforts to dispose of the Town's assets.
 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

grey-man said Unfortunately Ann, WBC continues to create its own democracy gap and it is the fault of all parties, as it is at national level.

So I guess that means than no-one interested in politics is to be trusted?  All I know is that the majority of borough and parish councillors i have come into contact with over many years, of all political persuasions, have been decent people wanting to do something for their community. Any decision will welcomed by some and questioned by others.  Because I personally feel the decision to close the tip is shortsighted and counter productive, that doesn't make it a 'wrong' decision.  By calling in the decision and making those who made the decision explain themselves we can at least have the opportunity to ask searching questions in a meeting held in public.  I agree entirely that decisions made behind closed doors and without consultation or explanation should be challenged, which is what I am doing.  Will it make any difference - who knows?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does calling the decision in for scrutiny and allowing those who made a decision to simply 'explain things' ever put a wrong doing right though Ann ? 

To me it's all a bit like when a child does something wrong.  As a 'grown up' you tell them off and sit them down ask them 'why' they did it.  They tell you 'why' and you explain why it is wrong and they promise never to do it again but that doesn't take away they fact that they have already done it and nothing can be done to change that.

I do agree with you though and there are some decent councilors about, it's just a damn shame that so many of them tow the party line so tightly that they never have the guts to actually speak out against a decision if they disagree with it. 

I've said it for years and I will always say it but party politics should NOT exist at local level.  If it didn't then maybe all those elected could actually work together rather that against each other, point scoring and tittle tattling all the time.

Anyway all that is sort of irrelevant and the main issue here is what is happening about Stockton Heath Tip.

The latest rumour flying around is that it's not closing now but will remain open with shorter opening times like Woolston.   Anyone know if that is true ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ann, I'm sure you're right about the majority of politicians but while the council continues to behave in the way it does and councillors the way they do, we are right not to trust our elected representatives. Just look at Councillor Murphy here trying to convince the people he is supposed to represent that the withdrawal of their own facilities is in their own best interests. He's putting his party and his own miserable skin first and treating the electorate as idiots so needs to be booted out at the first opportunity.

 

It's not even just about this and the standard council contempt for the people of Warrington in the way decisions are made, but the whole culture. Pretty much everything about this decision and the way it has been handled stinks and we've seen it all before time after time, regardless of whichever party is supposed to be representing us.

 

And does anybody think for one second that the council has now released all that needs to be known about the decision? We're all just sitting here waiting for the next nugget to slip out or be forced from them. So in that regard, we are right not to trust local politicians. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The democratic process allows decisions to be called in and searching questions to be asked.  If that process uncovers any wrongdoing, for example favouritism, failure to adhere to regulations etc then I would hope that the council would take that on board.  There is already considerable unrest in South Warrington so if the council does nothing this time something has got to give.  The problem is that the exec committee that makes these decisions is made up entirely of one party, and that party is known to insist that their councillors tow the party line.  Lib Dems, by the way, don't use the party whip in the same way.  We are a party full of individuals who question everything, so if an individual councillor strongly disagrees with 'the party line' they can say so and still be respected. Perhaps one answer would be to insist that council exec committees always include councillors from every party represented on the council, including independents.

Dizzy, I have also been through the process of believing things would somehow be better/fairer/equitable if there were no party politics at parish level.  However, having worked extensively with residents groups, voluntary groups and so on, I have come to realise that they can easily become dominated by overbearing individuals and cliques, and complaints and discord will still flow.  My only answer is to get stuck in at a local level in whatever way I can!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I stick my oar  in again and ask a question.

 

Firstly can I ask how much will the council save closing the tip?

 

Now a question to these on here, if the council bow to pressure and decide to leave the Stockton Heath tip open and close one of the others, will that be OK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coffee. Seeing as there's been no discussion or consultation who knows what the options are. Surely it would make more sense both financially and in environmental terms to ensure everybody has nearby recycling facilities. But then again maybe it is as simple as the council seeing the cash from the sale of the land and everybody in South Warrington can go screw themselves. That is the council's attitude towards most things.

 

Ann

 

I've been a Labour voter all my life but anybody in South Warrington who votes Labour at a local election until there are significant changes frankly needs their head examining.

 

What you can't do however is try to suggest that the Lib Dems (or Tories) would be any better overall. We all recall the council lurching from one scandal and disaster to another under the last administration. All the local parties need to bloody well sort themselves out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One way of looking at the closure is that the blue bin recyling scheme is working very well. so much so that there is very little that people need to take to the recycling centre.

 

however,judging from the number of sofas,fridges,beds and dyson vacuum cleaners that appear in the back alleyways of our area it will probably make no difference to a lot of people. What it will mean is that you have to drive a longer distance, with the associated pollution hazard, to recycle your stuff or you just dump it in a bag next to the bin and hope that at some stage it will dissappear.

 

on a stray thopught to get the pollution down. Maybe we could persuade some of the cycling fraternity to invest in one of those four wheel bikes. hitch a trailer to it and they can collect any recycling and peddle it to wherever it has to go. Would also mean taht we would be making good use of all those bits of green tarmac taht have sprung up over the years. (no potholes in that stuff maybe we should do the whole road with it. :mrgreen:  )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I've said before Coffee.

 

If the other 2 tips were to start charging properly for trade waste like they're supposed to then there's almost certainly be an overall financial surplus.

 

And what do you mean by how much would the saving be anyway? Obviously, the running costs of that particular tip would be an easily identified saving, and whatever the alleged developers pay for the land would represent a one off bonus (minus brown envelopes, of course). But then how do you quantify the cost of disposing of increased waste through the wheelie bins, and identify what additional waste going to the other tips would otherwise have gone to Staockton Heath. Then there's the loss of income from recyclables when people start to either take them to tips outside the area (Dunham or Irlam spring to mind) or give up on recycling altogether and just bung it all in the black bin. Plus the costs of clearing up the almost inevitable increase in fly tipping and the costs in terms of congestion that the increased traffic across the bridges to Woolston or Gateworth will bring - especially since Woolston is now to have its opening hours cut so people will be trying to get there through rush hour to catch it before it closes.

 

And finally, I would point out that Murphy's letter referred on several occasions to retaining Woolston and Gateworth at their proposed new opening hours "for the time being". Which means that they almost certainly already plan to cut or close those as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now a question to these on here, if the council bow to pressure and decide to leave the Stockton Heath tip open and close one of the others, will that be OK

No it wouldn't be ok in my book Coffee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dizzy, I have also been through the process of believing things would somehow be better/fairer/equitable if there were no party politics at parish level.  However, having worked extensively with residents groups, voluntary groups and so on, I have come to realise that they can easily become dominated by overbearing individuals and cliques, and complaints and discord will still flow.  My only answer is to get stuck in at a local level in whatever way I can!

A fair point Ann and I've come across quite a few overbearing and annoying individuals in my time too  :lol:

 

I don't really support any of the main parties and when it comes to local elections and I've always tried to put the 'party' out of my head and I vote for the PERSON  and the onee that I truly believe will do his/her best for the area and who will not just sit on their backsides or keep quiet about things as some do.  As each year passes and as more things happed I do find it harder and harder to put it out of my head though.

 

I respect you Ann for coming on this forum and speaking out when many others wouldn't and I'm sure as a person you do put a lot of effort and time into local things which is good :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well here's a bit of interesting 'news'.

Cast your minds back recently to all the coverage of the Arpley Landfill site. 

Their licence expired in October 2013, Warrington Council refused to extend their licence for another 12 years....they continued to take in waste... WBC looked into the potential to serve a planning enforcement notice (did they do that I can't remember)... the decision went to appeal ..... another application for extension of the licence was put in for 5 years (was that eventually approved, I can't remember that either).

None of Warrington's waste is sent to Arpley now and Halton Council have also stopped sending their stuff there too....... blah blah blah I'm sure you all followed the story and know what has been going on.

Well after all that FCC Environmental, the company who own/run Arpley Landfill, are the ones who's tender has just been accepted to managing our tips/recycling centres. :roll:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coffee. Seeing as there's been no discussion or consultation who knows what the options are. Surely it would make more sense both financially and in environmental terms to ensure everybody has nearby recycling facilities. But then again maybe it is as simple as the council seeing the cash from the sale of the land and everybody in South Warrington can go screw themselves. That is the council's attitude towards most things.

 

A consultation would cost even more

 

Like I've said before Coffee.

 

If the other 2 tips were to start charging properly for trade waste like they're supposed to then there's almost certainly be an overall financial surplus.

 

And what do you mean by how much would the saving be anyway?

 

Yes I know you said that before. I presume  the company taking over the running of the tips are charging the council a set amount and they do not want to run the SH site. I do not see why the cost of picking up wheelie bins should go up.

 

Most people will not go to the tip more then four or so times, so going to one which is 15 minutes away is not a huge inconvenience, These in Lymm and Latchford will be even less inconvenienced. I don't get why people are making such a fuss???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A consultation would cost even more

Why would it ?  They tend to do them online mostly these days and they are usually announced in the local press and on the council's own website.  Sometimes if you don't have internet access you can fill in paper forms in local libraries etc etc.  I can't see any of that costing anything at all ! :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes I know you said that before. I presume  the company taking over the running of the tips are charging the council a set amount and they do not want to run the SH site. I do not see why the cost of picking up wheelie bins should go up.

 

Most people will not go to the tip more then four or so times, so going to one which is 15 minutes away is not a huge inconvenience, These in Lymm and Latchford will be even less inconvenienced. I don't get why people are making such a fuss???

Inky seems to have been referring to trade waste being taken there in vans NOT residential wheelie bin waste or even trade waste put in WBC trade wheelie bins (which business actually have to pay for monthly by the way and it's not cheap !! )

 

I wish I only ever had to use the local tip 4 times a year and as for the others only being 15 minutes away well that does sound ok really.... shame it's not the same in reality though !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Inky seems to have been referring to trade waste being taken there in vans NOT residential wheelie bin waste or even trade waste put in WBC trade wheelie bins (which business actually have to pay for monthly by the way and it's not cheap !! )

 

I wish I only ever had to use the local tip 4 times a year and as for the others only being 15 minutes away well that does sound ok really.... shame it's not the same in reality though !

 

 

So where do Warrington dump its rubbish

 

Out of interest Dizzy, how often do you go to the tip,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So where do Warrington dump its rubbish

Do you mean black bin, blue bin, green bin residential and/or the stuff that goes to the tips and is split between the various recyclable waste skips or non recyclable

and/or the trade waste that businesses put in their large bins that they pay a monthly fee for ?  Obviously anything 'recyclable' is not actually dumped though and is sold but I wasn't sure what you meant.

 

Out of interest Dizzy, how often do you go to the tip,

It varies and depends what I've been doing to be honest but say Ive not been having a junk out or picking up litter and things dumped around where I live then just for my stuff alone it's usually about every two weeks from this time of the year onwards but can sometimes be more than that. Like I said it all depends really.

 

How often do you go to one  ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coffee, I have been amazed at how many people I've spoken to recently who visit the tip every week.  These are either larger families who say the fortnightly bin collections are not enough, or residents with decent-sized gardens who go every week during the summer.

 

The consultation referred to in the council papers was undertaken by the previous administration in 2008.  The conclusion of that consultation was that all of the recycling centres were valued and vital so the decision was taken to keep them all open.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A consultation would cost even more

 

Or not. Or highlight the need to keep them all open. Or explore better options. 

 

Personally I don't even understand why the council is in conversation with a business it is already in dispute with. They clearly value the opinion of  a company that is already in breach of another agreement more than the opinions of residents. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...