Town wide energy switch?

[observer]

Kendal Council has started a scheme, whereby they act on behalf of signed up town's folk to negotiate with the energy companies for the cheapest tariff. Similar schemes exist in Holland, where bills were reduced from around £150 to £50; which begs the question, are these companies ripping us off, if they can achieve such reductions? Would you want the Council to explore such an initiative and would you want to register?

[Dizzy]

If the council could get us savings similar to that then yes I'd sign up (after reading all the small print of course)

[Cleopatra]

Good idea! Get the council to negaotiate cheaper energy for you all then they can icrease your counci tax by the amount they have got your energy reduced.

[observer]

Not quite, they would get a commission from the energy provider for providing the bulk custom.

[Dizzy]

Yep so a win win then on both sides then (maybe).

 

I doubt they'd increase council tax Cleo as people would just move to all these 'more affordable' homes with lower rates and the likes that they are allowing to be built or maybe people would move out of the area all together if they did go down your suggested route

 

More money to be had by continually ripping off (oops sorry I mean hammering) the local businesses etc in the area who can't as easily up sticks and move elsewhere.

[inky pete]

One tariff would never be suitable for all customers in the borough. Some want fixed rates for as long as possible, some want dual fuel, some want "green" electricity, some want paper bills, some simply won't deal with certain suppliers as a result of previous bad service, consumption amounts and patterns vary.

 

One size is never going to fit all.

[Dizzy]

Very true Inky and I'm sure that Kendal Council aren't expecting all their residents to sign up... just some.

 

It would be a simple exercise to say to people 'right we are going to negotiate for the cheapest price we can get on say a dual fuel tarrif. Are you interested ? We need to be able to show we have at least 500 people who would be willing to switch IF the price is considerably lower than you can get elsewhere'

 

Personally as a council I would negotiate and then send it to the press and the energy watchdog bloke showing that the energy companies were willing to offer a much reduced price (whilst clearly still making a profit) so they should be able to offer the very same discounted price to all their customers

 

You mention 'different consumption' amounts and 'patterns'. Why should the amount we use or when we use it make any difference to the unit price we pay ?

[inky pete]

Different consumption amounts change the balance of whether a "standing charge plus low unit cost" is cheaper than a "no standing charge plus higher unit cost" tariff is cheapest.

 

Different consumption patterns (a night shift worker, for example, or someone who works from home during the day) can change whether or not a tariff which includes an Economy 7 night rate will work out cheapest.

[inky pete]

Also, unless it were a fixed rate for a defined period (which in times of rising prices will always be more expensive per unit at the outset than a standard variable tariff) there would be nothing to stop a supplier quoting a low price to start with and then creeping the rates up over a period of time - relying on peoples inertia to keep many of them on what they think is "the cheapest tariff on the market".

 

And if people did then start leaving the group negotiated tariff, so that the group size fell to below the 500 customers mark, the supplier would no longer be bound any price promises made.

 

The ridiculous thing is that 20% of everyone's gas and electricity bill is made up of tax and so-called green levies imposed by the government. If the government really were so concerned about energy costs then they could cut everyone's bill by that 20% with a stroke of the Chancellors pen.

[Dizzy]

We used to have ecomony 7 heating when we first moved in our house. It was cheaper (apparently) as it would use elec during the night to charge and emit the heat during the day... by 7pm it had run out and we used to sit with coats on cos we were freezing.

 

WHY should it cost more to use elec during the day than it does at night as it's still coming from the same place and the same supplier.

 

It doesn't cost me any more to drive or put petrol in my car in the day than it does at night, it doesn't cost me any more to shop during the day than it would at night, so why should it cost me any more to use my elec lights or gas appliances.

 

Are the energy companies the ones behind the ridiculous long standing idea of the clocks going back tomorrow too so that we have to put our lights and heating on an hour earlier

[Peter T]

There is less electric used at night. What isn't used gets put into the ground. But the generators still churn out even when we are all tucked up in bed. Not a product that can be stored until required.

 

I don't think they do Economy 7 any more.

[asperity]

What Inky says about the "green" taxes imposed by the government to pay wealthy people to own bird killers.

 

Dizzy, I don't understand why changing the clocks back to GMT means having to put your heat and light on earlier. There are only so many hours of daylight in any day (depending on the time of year obviously) so what the clock says shouldn't make an iota of difference.

[observer]

Believe these schemes work on an annual basis, so any increase by the supplier would mean a re-negotiation with the rest. The bottom line is, like most private sector charges, they are based on maximising profit and are a case of smoke and mirrors, designed to confuse customers into being ripped off. As for storing electricity Pierre, yes it can be stored, via hydraulic pumps sited inside mountains, but I don't think we have that many, if any; but it would cater for peak demands.

[Bazj]

If we are in a truly "European Free Market" as Kije keeps telling us, why is gas and electric so much cheaper on the continent and cheaper even in Northern Ireland?

 

Why can't the public just buy their gas and electric from there like you can buy cars and the like?

[Lt Kije]

Gas is cheaper in Northern Ireland because of the regulator, Energy on the continent is not that much cheaper, and in some Countries is more expensive.

[observer]

It could be made cheaper of course, by nationalising and subsidising; and self sufficiency.

[asperity]

Subsidising doesn't actually make it cheaper, it just transfers some of the cost to the taxpayer, who is also a consumer. Plus the added bureaucracy which has its own cost. Nationalisation didn't work the last time either.

 

For information on fuel prices Europe wide:

 

Fuel

[observer]

Makes it cheaper at the point of consumption Asp. And IF we had a Gov that really meant "we're all in it together"; they would be using the tax system to subsidise it, thus the rich would pay more to support the poorest.

[inky pete]

The "rich" already pay more than the poor. Many of the "poor" pay little or nothing at all in tax.

 

That's the inevitable effect of a taxation system based on escalating rates of tax as earnings increase.

 

Besides, since the "rich" tend to use more energy than the "poor" any price subsidy would benefit them more. I doubt that's what you were hoping to achieve Obs.

[observer]

Think you exagerate their current financial commitment to the tax system Ink; top earners exercise complex tax avoidance schemes to the extent, they pay less than 10% income tax. So good in fact, that even the taxmen are at it!

[Evil Sid]

There may be a simple reason why the "rich" use more energy than the "poor". The "poor" can't afford it

[inky pete]

Think you exagerate their current financial commitment to the tax system Ink; top earners exercise complex tax avoidance schemes to the extent, they pay less than 10% income tax. So good in fact, that even the taxmen are at it!

 

My link

 

Quotes "The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research."

 

"The lower-earning 50 per cent pay £17bn – less than the housing benefit bill."

 

Official figures, as opposed to your ignorant preconceptions.

[asperity]

I see I am paying 34% of all the Income tax collected. No wonder I'm always skint :angry:

[Coffee]

40% tax payers pay 34% of tax, who gets the 6%.

[Cleopatra]

There may be a simple reason why the "rich" use more energy than the "poor". The "poor" can't afford it

 

Or maybe the rich light up every room in their mansions, wasting energy.