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British manufacturing


asperity
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Unlike you Lt Kije, I'm optimistic towards Britain's having a place in the world of manufacturing, technology and engineering. I knew you would come back with some denigrating comment, you are so predictable!

 

As for where Sarnia Liberty was built, I'm sure you are able to Google with the best of them! Not that it is relevant in any case :roll:

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Why is the UK building Naval type ships for the likes of Brazil and other countries whilst at the same time our government is decomissioning some of what WE have and not building anymore for US to replace them with !! :evil:

 

HMS Westminster is due to return to our shores next week after 7 months deployment catching pirates and keeping the seas of 'elsewhere' safe but I just read that it is returning home without one sailor who was 'lost' in Dubai in June.

 

No-one seems to know what happened to him or if he is still alive. My heart goes out to his preganant wife, his children and the his family and friends :cry:

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We're building two new aircraft carriers - bigger and more capable than anything our navy has ever had before - and have 4 new Astute class subs under construction. We're are also designing the new Type 26 Global Combat Ships to replace all of our existing Type 23 frigates.

 

Plus we've got the last of the new Type 45 destroyers coming in to replace the Type 42's - admittedly there will be fewer of them, but they are bigger and much better. And there's a major rolling programme to replace a large number of the minor vessels (minesweepers, coastal patrol boats and support ships).

 

We ARE building new ships for our Navy, mainly because its role has changed from Cold War hunting and killing of Russian missile subs in the Atlantic to a much more diverse and widely spread set of missions.

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In reply to Lt Kije, the reason why this ship wasn't built in Britain is partly because the original owners weren't British and partly because British builders of Merchant ships couldn't change their working practices fast enough to compete in the world market. That BAE are able to compete in the warship market is surely to be applauded. Some of my companies' ships were built in Barrow actually.

 

Dizzy, the reason why the Government is getting rid of our navy is just one of the many unfathomable questions that only they can answer!!

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That is a rather naiive outlook Obs. Surely if you want the best equipment on a ship you need to source it from the best manufacturer of that equipment, not restrict yourselves to the home market. My ship was built in Russia and Latvia but has British, German, Danish and Swedish amongst others equipment fitted. Once again you show how narrow your outlook on the world is Obs.

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If your building a ship for the British Navy, the parts should be sourced from UK companies, as if you buy from abroad, other Countries know what's on your ship, and other governments don't normally give their best defence TEC away to other countries, so you would not be getting the best.

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But if the equipment manufactured by British companies isn't the best available then you aren't equipping the vessels with the best. Once again spouting claptrap Lt Kije <_< <_< <_<

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If Zanussi make the best walk in fridges for the galleys - then we should have Italian fridges.

 

If Siemens make the best dishwashers - then we should have German dishwashers.

 

If Raytheon make the best radar systems in the world - then we should have American radars.

 

If Rolls Royce make the best gas turbine engines in the world - then we should have British engines.

 

All of the other NATO countries known EXACTLY what equipment our Naval ships are using anyway - they have to in order to be able to work with our ships.

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The point is inky, we should be making the best radar, Raytheon will not sell the Uk, the same spec radar they are equipping American military ships, When the Americans sell F16's they are not selling the same spec model that they are using, it will have different weapons systems on it, they are not going to give you their best for you to take apart and then copy. You keep the best for your armed services. Common sense really.

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The point is that "we should" and "we are" are two different things, which makes sourcing the "best equipment" and "British made" mutually exclusive in many cases. So a compromise has to be reached. Do we fit the best available, or the best British made? So even if the American radar available to us isn't as high spec as the one available to the US Navy, if it better than any home produced then it would be foolish to reject it on purely nationalistic grounds.

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Is there a prize on this forum for stating the bleeding obvious? Well there ought to be for posts like that :wink:

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I used to be proud to be able to say that my company was one of the few small businesses that set out to actually manufactured products. But times change and outsourcing, often to the Far East, was the only way to remain in a competitive market place.

 

To give a good example, last week I bought a smart phone at Asda for £32 pounds that does everything and more than the devices I used to manufacture and at one tenth of the cost. This isn’t a new phenomenon though.

 

When I was finishing my engineering apprenticeship back in the early seventies, the MD of the company gave me a pair of pliers and asked for my opinion. I inspected what was clearly an uncannily perfect tool only to be told that he’d bought them from Woolworth’s for little more than we were paying to make the basic blank parts. A year later, the business was gone and 120 people were out of work.

 

 

Bill :)

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The point is inky, we should be making the best radar, Raytheon will not sell the Uk, the same spec radar they are equipping American military ships, When the Americans sell F16's they are not selling the same spec model that they are using, it will have different weapons systems on it, they are not going to give you their best for you to take apart and then copy. You keep the best for your armed services. Common sense really.

 

Wrong, but you've never let that stop you from spouting off in the past Corporal.

 

The Type 45 destroyers are equipped with Raytheon type 1047 and 1048 radars. EXACTLY THE SAME radars which are in use by the US Navy. And the Phalanx radar controlled close in defence system. EXACTLY THE SAME system which is in use by the US Navy.

 

The Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers will be equipped with F-35C aircraft EXACTLY THE SAME model to EXACTLY THE SAME specification as has been ordered by both the US Navy and US Marine Corps.

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And that, Bill, is what the real world is. There is no point whingeing about how unfair it is. The only way to make our way in the world is to become as competitive as our neighbours.

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The type 45s use the Samson system, which is made by Bae systems.

The Samson system being the primary defence system radars, the rathian systems are navigation and software.

As I have said many times, I am all for World trade, but are strategic industries, such as defence, energy ect should stay British.

 

We are lucky that Bae Systems are one of the best defence contractors in the World.

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That’s true Asp. It’s those who try to hang onto to the past rather than adapt that end up going to the wall. In my case when I look at what we as a business were doing 25 years ago compared to what we do now it’s just mind-boggling.

 

Who’d have thunk it!

 

Bill :)

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