asperity Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 No, we just need to leave the EUSSR to self destruct without giving them any more of our money to do it with :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I'd vote for that, but somehow, I don't think our mainstream politicians will give us that opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Any referendum they did give us would be loaded towards the continuation of the status quo (no I don't mean Rick Parfitt) :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Surely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Seems we're now out on our own, as we were in 1805 and 1940 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I may be insular but would like a referendum because i don't want Germany to achieve by stealth, what it failed to do by force. If the populace in general doesn't mind, so be it. Â Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I may be insular but would like a referendum because i don't want Germany to achieve by stealth, what it failed to do by force. If the populace in general doesn't mind, so be it.  Happy days  Agreed. Cameron should now be looking at a referendum with unbiased questions, and lets get out of this Euro trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Interested in this arguement from Labour and the LibDums, that "if we're not in there, negotiating for our interests, we'll get nothing"; errm, thought we were being outvoted anyway, so what's the point of being inside the tent?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Agreed. Cameron should now be looking at a referendum with unbiased questions, and lets get out of this Euro trap. Â No need. Cameron has already got the Lib Dems about to throw in the towel. That will create the need for an election which the Tories will fight on the 'Wer're looking after Britain' wagon, which has the majority of British support. Â Cameron gets in with a working majority, the Lib Dems fall back into obscurity, the Labour party remain as the only credible alternative and we are back to square one, still in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 That assumes the LibDums have an ounce of self respect and integrity; but their presence "in Government" is a once in a 100year fluke; which they ain't going to throw away lightly; so they'll suffer the indignity of being the Torie's political nonce; until they sink into obscurity at the next election! Meanwhile, you've got Millipede, more or less admiting that, if he was PM, he'd be the nonce of the EU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 With regards to Milliband.... would you trust the country to someone who would shaft his own brother for the top job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeway60 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 The sceptics should be very careful about what they wish for. Britain can't go it alone anymore simply because most of the economy is owned by foreigners. A good example is Toyota who have a complex near Derby. 85% of their production is exported most of which goes to the EU. It doesn't make any financial or political sense to have production based in a semi-detatched member of the EU. Some swivel eyed neanderthals in the Tory party indeed even some posters on here seem to think the Empire is still in full swing and square riggers are on the high seas bringing gold and treasure back to these shores. Take a look at the map and realise this country is a small and isignificant dot on this world map. We are dependent on others for our economic survival and we don't have a cat in hells chance in survival going it alone. If the sceptics have their way all we'll be is a tax haven for the very wealthy...A Cayman Islands without the sunshine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 You mean the EU operates a protectionist policy in this world of global free trade?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 None as blind as those who can't see what is happening to this country. See the Germans want to take over the airways. Certainly catching up and putting right their failures of the last war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Safeway.... The big problem I have with Europe is this (and I am sure that the majority in the country share this view too) Â When my mum and dad were asked in the 70's if we would like to join a "common Market" for trade; they and millions like them said yes.... who wouldn't want preferential trading relations with half of Europe? Â Unfortunately, what we have now is the makings of a German/Franco run superstate.... run on their terms and to their rules. I personally don't want this country to be run and dictated to by a bunch of unelected pen-pushers in Brussels overseen by the Germans and French. Â Now you and everyone else who criticises the likes of me and my views always bang on about the "trade" links and what it would do for jobs.... if that is the case, why don't we just go back to what the EU was all originally about; TRADE?? Â Our parents didn't sign up for a backdoor takeover of our country by the Germans, we signed up to be able to sell them fish and chips and yorkshire puddings without any financial barriers.... Â The euro politicians see the EU now as one big cash cow and pension pot and the next step in the political career. Â Get it back to a trading agreement, get rid of the Euro, get rid of the outrageously expensive parliament and all its hangers on and stupid rules and dictats and you may end up with a Europe that will do what it is supposed to do; encourage trade. Â Instead we have a mish-mash of countries; all afraid of losing their identities, but too scared to stand up to Germany for fear of losing the massive handouts they get in return for their subserviance. France is in collaboration with the Germans on this one too (sound familiar??) and only the UK, the only other net-contibutor stands between freedom and German dominance....(de ja vous anybody?) Â and to cap it all, there is a queue of 8 countries all sat waiting for the green light to join in the trough snuffling including Bosnia, Croatia and other organised crime ridden ex-communist states..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeway60 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 None as blind as those who can't see what is happening to this country. See the Germans want to take over the airways. Certainly catching up and putting right their failures of the last war. Â Time has eroded the memory of Mum and Dad. The question asked in the 1970's wasn't to join the EEC but whether or not to remain in it. Of course I voted yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Time has eroded the memory of Mum and Dad. The question asked in the 1970's wasn't to join the EEC but whether or not to remain in it. Of course I voted yes. Â maybe so, but the fact is they never voted to be part of a massive; German dominated superstate. Â Do you really think that only a generation after the war, our parents would have voted to allow Germany the power they are wielding now? If you think that I reckon you are seriously misguided!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 There's a major assumption in all this by the Europhiles - IE. that Italy and Greece won't default, and the whole rotten edifice collapses. Some of these "failing" Euro zone Countries have smaller deficits than we do, but the straight jacket of the Euro prevents them taking the necessary national action to rectify matters (EG devalueation). The so-called diciplines that the 26 wish to introduce, require ever more political union and control, and consequent loss of national soveignty; and the evolution of a Fourth Reich. There's a question as to whether these diciplines can be brought in in time to satisfy "the markets"; and given the state of the EU books for the past decade, which have never been signed off on audit; the term dicipline in that context appears rather ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 The rest of the 25 are all sleep-walking into a lifetime of subservience to the Germans. Germany are bailing out the rest, but on THEIR terms. Just as Cameron has been criticised for looking after what he sees are the UK's best interests, Germany is doing exactly the same!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 The rest of the 25 dropped their slacks for the Germans in WW2, so I suppose old habits die hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Care to explain your, evolution of a fourth Reich, comment Obs, or is it you just you scare mongering again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Holy Clegg He's back. I thought the veto had done fer 'im Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Kim Jong-il isn't dead.... he just got out and is back posting on here again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Knew he couldn't resist the "fourth Reich" comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Holy Clegg He's back. I thought the veto had done fer 'im   :grin: :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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