observer Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 - or rather a return of the old. Andrew Niel did a prog tonight about the return to the monopolising of political power in this Country by ex-public school, Oxford University educated toffs. Seems half the current Cabinet are Toffs and millionaires, and the New Labour fast track requires an Ox-bridge degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, to get you a job as a SPecial ADvisor to the Party Leadership, then, once "on message" you can be parachuted into a solid working class Labour constituency as an MP, to continue taking your instructions from the Centre rather than from your new constituents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 A bit like University grads getting into industry. In both cases they don't have any people experience and hence it doesn't work. In the good old days, we had farmers who were MP's who had their fingers on the pulse. (Thinking of the Foot and Mouth farces under Blair) Ologies in everything plus NVQ's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ah ! The good old days best viewed through rose coloured glasses when landowners & knights of the realm entered Parliament to further their own ends. Nice to see the courts sending the expense fiddling fraudsters to jail but how long has this little perk gone on undetected? Not forgetting,of course, the ultimate accolade for failed MP's , admission to a seat on the Euro gravy train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Not sure "farmers" was a good example Pierre, they probably saw more cows than people! The Labour Party was originally formed from the proletariat, in order to represent them in the decision making councils of the land; and sprung from the formation of organised labour (TUs). Kier Hardy even wore his cloth cap in the Commons, no doubt an inclusive sight amongst all those top hats and bowlers! Public schools represent about 7% of the schools intake, but occupy a disproportionately high representation in the Government of this Country, from hopes of a meritocracy with PMs from Wilson to Brown (including Sailor Ted and Maggie), we've now regressed to rule by an elite who havn't a clue how the majority of the Plebs have to exist - and probably don't care either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Very true Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 My point about farmers, was that at least one dept had an MP who had some REAL experience. NOTHING to do with rose-tinted glasses. How can you have an expert running one dept who can then get transferred to another even though that person has no experience? Perhaps Wavydavy could name some good ministers from the last 20 years. Not a statesman to be found, but people thought Bliar was wonderful. I wouldn't pay him to run WTFC!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It's not particularly a case of being expert in a particular portfolio, although some knowledge is obviously helpfull. They have "experts" to advise; as a "representative" of "the people", the politician should have experience of and a feel for the public mood (rather than "the Party" dogma). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 The problem seems to be that becoming an MP is now seen as a career choice, not a chance to be of service to constituents and the nation. One should only be allowed to stand as an MP after having worked and lived in a community for at least 10 years, shown honesty, knowledge and common sense plus having some sensible ideas for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 you can be parachuted into a solid working class Labour constituency as an MP, to continue taking your instructions from the Centre rather than from your new constituents. As the joke goes "Labour can put a goat forward as a cadidate, and still get elected coz its Labour" They are called carrer politicians, half of them are as useful as a goat it goes oxbridge -> councillor -> special advisor -> MP -> MEP -> HOL/EU comissioner (or other similar position) (retirement home) private sector? what the f*ck is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahl Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Silverlady said The problem seems to be that becoming an MP is now seen as a career choice, not a chance to be of service to constituents and the nation. One should only be allowed to stand as an MP after having worked and lived in a community for at least 10 years, shown honesty, knowledge and common sense plus having some sensible ideas for improvement this seems like a description for a magistrate or judge and look at what a crowd of idiots have these jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It's not particularly a case of being expert in a particular portfolio, although some knowledge is obviously helpfull. They have "experts" to advise; as a "representative" of "the people", the politician should have experience of and a feel for the public mood (rather than "the Party" dogma). It doesn't work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 It doesn't work, cos it helps if the politician has some ideas and convictions to begin with, based on an assessment of needs and aspirations in the real world rather than obsequious deference to their Party line to protect their career progression. The concentration span of politicians and indeed most of the electorate is around 5 years; try to address fundementals with planning and preparation timed in decades, and I'm afraid folk become lost - it's similar to soccer - fans can't wait to build a team, they want results NOW. The German economy is now booming (relatively to others), cos as early as 1995, they were making structural changes that are now delivering dividends. They also happen to actually manufacture things for export and appear to have a loyal poulation that prefer to buy things made in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think we can all agree that career politicians are a waste of space. But do we really think a Government made up of proles would be better than one made up of millionaire businessmen. Surely someone who has had the business acumen to become a millionaire is more likely to be able to run the country than a prole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 A good mix is surely the answer. We need the best people whatever their background, both millionaires and those who are not to get a balanced view. It is the quality of the person and their abilities that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 In a democracy the theory is, that we have a bottom up election process, in which majorities decide who they want, on the basis of their perceived abilities - thus a meritocracy. However, the system now revolves around selection, which also involves positive descrimination in favour of so-called minorities in order to provide a theoretical "mix". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I am not sure there is a good answer anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 We could cut out the middlemen (IE politicians): by building a super computer to run the Country. Everyone types in their aspirations and based on revenue expectation and all other relevent data, the computer comes up with the required policy option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 We could cut out the middlemen (IE politicians): by building a super computer to run the Country. Everyone types in their aspirations and based on revenue expectation and all other relevent data, the computer comes up with the required policy option! Might as well fast forward to 2050 and let the computer give the orders. You wouldn't need money, just a number and a job as instructed. Citizen observer, you will be on food gathering today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Thank you Obs, I was really in need of a good laugh today The mention of government in the same sentence as computer is always good for a chortle or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 It was tongue in cheek; BUT never the less with a germ of seriousness. Computers currently fly our aircraft, guide our ships, organise our container docks, operate our traffic systems (admitedly a bad example!) etc etc. The next generation of fighter aircraft will be pilotless. The problem with politics and economics is that they are not exact sciences, so the introduction of logical decision making would depend on the quality of the data imputed. Getting back to the origins of the topic, believe there's an interesting prog on next week titled "birth or worth". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 It doesn't work, cos it helps if the politician has some ideas and convictions to begin with, based on an assessment of needs and aspirations in the real world rather than obsequious deference to their Party line to protect their career progression. The concentration span of politicians and indeed most of the electorate is around 5 years; try to address fundementals with planning and preparation timed in decades, and I'm afraid folk become lost - it's similar to soccer - fans can't wait to build a team, they want results NOW. The German economy is now booming (relatively to others), cos as early as 1995, they were making structural changes that are now delivering dividends. They also happen to actually manufacture things for export and appear to have a loyal poulation that prefer to buy things made in Germany. Completely agree Just two points fundementals is actually spelled fundamentals and poulation is spelled population Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Kije, have you found a spell checker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeway56 Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I think we can all agree that career politicians are a waste of space.But do we really think a Government made up of proles would be better than one made up of millionaire businessmen. Surely someone who has had the business acumen to become a millionaire is more likely to be able to run the country than a prole? Agreed but both Cameron and Osborne are rich from money made by previous generations. Neither of them were successful in the private sector. Cameron was a PR man for a failed TV company and Osborne worked for a very short time for Selfridges in unknown capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 I'll stand corrected on spelling Kije, but coming from you, of all people, it's rather insulting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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