observer Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Seems the latest Tory plans for tax breaks for married couples, has been slagged off by the suitably named Ed Balls; saying that this "would stigmatise the kids" - sorry Ed but it's the parents who are stigmatising the kids with the title "bastard" by NOT getting married in the first place - so self inflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Ye Gods. What on earth does he mean by that? Having married parents will stigmatise children because all the five year olds from single parent families will gather in the playground chanting "Your Dad gets 1% off his tax bill" at them? Unlikely, I feel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Obs if two people marry, have a child then divorce two months after the child is born is that ok? Presumably the child would not be officially a 'b*stard' then by your standards... but would still have unmarried parents and therefore possibly be more stigmatised through a family break up and divorce 'B*stard' is not a nice word to use Obs especially when it is aimed and children for no reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Oxford Current English Dictionary:- Bastard: - born of parents not married to each other. So in answer to your Q. Diz: if parents are married, any offspring are legitimate; if the parents subsequently divorce, they still have a mother and father, and whilst such circumstances may affect their development, it's not an uncommon feature of modern society, but I guess you can't force folk to live together "for the sake of their kids". About one in four kids are now living in one parent families, 90% of which are single mums. Some fiscal encouragement of marriage may cause folk either to be more wary of having kids outside it, or put more effort into working at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 With regards to the B word in question, I thought that it was a type of metal working file, in fact I've got a few bastards in my tool box..... used one yesterday on some copper piping when I was doing some plumbing Regarding the marriage allowance, it used to exist and claimed by the husband, then it was scrapped when a married woman received a tax allowance in her own right. Married men also, I think, used to be able to claim a child tax allowance as well. The tax and benefits system has got unbelievebly complicated. Interestingly I rather sense that if the Tory proposal looks like a vote winner, Labour will suddenly adopt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I thought that they banned that description so as not to offend the office wallahs who would do the re-ordering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thankfully not Peter. http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=FILES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=22-006&SDesc=6%26quot%3B+Mill+Bastard+File PS On the subject of my plumbing project, it proved to be a right B....but got it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Both appear to involve illigitamacy and plumbing tools?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thankfully not Peter. http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=FILES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=22-006&SDesc=6%26quot%3B+Mill+Bastard+File PS On the subject of my plumbing project, it proved to be a right B....but got it sorted. It's all about patience and technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Oxford Current English Dictionary:- Bastard: - born of parents not married to each other. Yep I know but it is old fashioned and rarely used in that context these days Another definition is - noun - 'B*stard' Slang A person, especially one who is held to be mean or disagreeable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Correct Diz: the former is an accident of birth - the later has taken a lot of time and effort on my part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Does that mean that a disagreeable bastard is a bastard bastard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 No, that will be a scouser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thankfully not Peter. http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=FILES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=22-006&SDesc=6%26quot%3B+Mill+Bastard+File PS On the subject of my plumbing project, it proved to be a right B....but got it sorted. It's all about patience and technique. Indeed it is, and a large mug of tea to assist the pondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Are we still on plumbing? Cos if most people had a large mug of tea and a ponder, there'd be a lot less careless babymaking went on!! It's the lack of quality tea and pondering that causes most of our social issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I do an awful lot of pondering over cups of tea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Saw a notice outside a church on the Causeway some years back, obviously aimed at the judgemental, reading: 'Unmarried mother with baby, partner unemployed carpenter looking for work. Homeless, seeking accomodation to rent.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I like it Wonder how many people actually understood it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 You wouldn't be preaching would you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thought Mary was married to Joseph, even though it wasn't his kid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 You wouldn't be preaching would you No I'm not preaching Lt. I posted this because I thought it was apt to post on a thread discussing marriage/childrearing. It appears that 'the couple chosen by God as parents to rear the Messiah' were chosen for their childrearing abilities, the fact they were not married didn't seem to be a problem. I myself can't see the relevance of merely possessing a marriage certificate to good childrearing abilities. A child care certificate might be more helpful? Whatever, that little notice says a whole lot more, I really like it, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thought Mary was married to Joseph, even though it wasn't his kid! Mary was 'espoused' to Joseph, which in those days would be a bit like being engaged. Espousements were really the periods of time between the promise of the woman's family to supply a dowry and the dowry being handed over, at which point the couple would usually make the union 'legal' by marriage. During espousements the couple lived together and as espousements could last years (or years and years! depending on how long it took to agree the details of the dowry and hand it over) it would not be unusual for a couple to produce offspring. Jesus was born whilst Mary and Joseph were living together (in a state of enspousement). Whether he was Joseph's kid or not is debated by historians, some who believe that as the bible says she was a virgin at the time of conception he obviously couldn't have been. Others argue that the term 'virgin' in those days merely meant 'a young woman' whether she had sex or not was irrelevant. They would add to their argument references in the bible which appear to mention the existance of an older brother (as well as a number of other younger siblings) of Jesus. Whether or not Mary and Joseph ever finally got married I don't know. Actually, the details re his parents marital status, his conception or the number of siblings he may have/not had are not really important to me. The fact that he was a really decent,selfless, community minded bloke, kind, caring, compassionate, who talked a load of sense and used his intelligence for the good of mankind is enough to demand nothing but respect from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 A child care certificate might be more helpful? Whatever, that little notice says a whole lot more, I really like it, don't you? I do, but of course it all rather depends on whether you are a "believer" or not. With regards to a child care certificate, if it is anything like many certificates that are currently handed out then it will be pretty worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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