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Love and Marriage?


observer

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If you wish to hide behind the term "espousement" Sha, fine; but such an arrangement would represent "marriage" in all but name in the eyes of their contempories; and indeed, as they had moved to Bethlehem as couple, to register for the Roman census, it would tend to reinforce such a position. I doubt many Christians would like to think of JC as a bastard in any case! :wink: Wonder if the authorities pursued the Angel Gabrial for child maintainance?! :?:wink:

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If you wish to hide behind the term "espousement" Sha, fine; but such an arrangement would represent "marriage" in all but name in the eyes of their contempories; and indeed, as they had moved to Bethlehem as couple, to register for the Roman census, it would tend to reinforce such a position. (end quote)

 

Such an arrangement would represent 'marriage' (not in fact legally) but in all but name in the eyes of their contempories,...much as 'living together' does today!

 

And, moving to Bethlehem as a couple, to register for the Roman census would tend to reinforce such a position......much as being recorded as living together on today's census would....as would joint mortgages/rent agreements, joint bank accounts etc etc.

 

Ob's, you seem to bring up the subject 'the importance of marriage' or the 'lack of couples getting married these days'

quite a lot, I am intriqued as you seem to hold strong views but I don't think you've ever explained why. (or maybe you have somewhere and I've missed it!)

 

Why do you think it is important for people to marry?

Would all types of marriages have the same perceived benefits, which aspect is most important? to be married in the eyes of God?, married in the eyes of the Church?, or married in the eyes of the law? and why?

What about civil partnerships?

Monogamy? Polygamy? Polyandry?

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I think "married in the eyes of the law", and thus the benefits system. The topic was prompted by the Tory announcement of tax breaks for married couples; and it presses several buttons in respect of teenage pregnancy rates, child illigitimacy etc - and consequent strains on social care budgets. I frankly don't see the problem: if couples want to latch onto enhanced provision for married couples - all they have to do is get married. :roll:

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I think "married in the eyes of the law", and thus the benefits system. :

 

Ah! so it's really all to do with economics and the benefits system! and here's me thinking you were just 'an old fashioned guy'!

 

Well, they could give tax breaks for couples 'living together' just the same as if they were 'married' (but I s'pose it would be a little more difficult to prove.)

 

I'm not convinced that tax breaks for marrieds would actually have much effect on some of the social/economic problems you have mentioned.

A vast amount of 'single mums' have initially been married.....then got rid of the husband when they've found out they would be better off on benefits! But I agree, the trend does seem to be moving towards not getting married in the first place.

 

Young girls seeing no hope of any real career /employment prospects seem to be actively choosing to be single mothers through lack of alternatives.

The core of the problem I think is lack of viable alternatives. I'd wager that if there were enough employment opportunities, well paid enough for these young girls to work, earn, and afford some leisure, they'd soon master the art of contraception!

Why would they want to sit in with a screaming baby if they could be earning, buying clothes, going out, having holidays (the sort of things young people like to do)

These 'luxuries' are not available on the wages they can earn, never will be! but as a single mum on benefits they can afford some of these luxuries...and a babysitter to boot!

Do you think job creation and highering the minimum wage might help?

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Young girls seeing no hope of any real career /employment prospects seem to be actively choosing to be single mothers through lack of alternatives.

 

Why would they want to sit in with a screaming baby if they could be earning, buying clothes, going out, having holidays (the sort of things young people like to do)

These 'luxuries' are not available on the wages they can earn, never will be! but as a single mum on benefits they can afford some of these luxuries...and a babysitter to boot!

 

They make a deliberate choice to get pregnant because they see their mates do it, and see them get loads of money off the state as well as somewhere to live that is paid for by the rest of us. The only outgoings they have are food and drink and cigarettes.

It is a way of life, and has been for years.

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They make a career choice to become a matriarch, with a Council house, and tempory partners to pop in the next child to claim for. Make child benefit and Council House allocation subject to the production of a marriage certificate, and I'm thinking contraception would become more popular. :? It would also give the assortment of half brothers and sisters an idea of who their real Dad is! :wink:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not disputing that, just answering Sha's question.

It should be made a lot more difficult to get these hand-outs. If you work hard, and struggle in life, the system penalises you because you might earn 50p too much to qualify for anything. You certainly won't get to the top of the housing list.

That is wrong, and it's time that the system was changed to reward those that earn it and make the effort.

 

These situations are commonplace. If the system can be abused, people will do just that.

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Talking about abusing the system.

 

I've just got back from a friends house. The bloke next door and his girlfriend or whatever she is, have just got back from six weeks in the Canary islands. They do it every year. Neither of them have worked for at least 12 years. They are in a council house. They have a car which is parked up somebody elses driveway, so as not to arouse suspicion when they do get a visit from the council. She has been kicked out of her last council property as she was a neighbour from hell.

 

A couple of weeks ago they had a barbeque in the back garden with a DJ blasting music out all over the place. At the same time they had a kareoke machine going on in the front room of their house. All their skanky and scally mates were there, about 30 of them. They have been reported countless number of times but nothing seems to get done.

 

I'm thinking of popping round there and asking them for a few tips.

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They aren't abusing the system. The system is set up to abuse decent hardworking people. You get your rent in full from day one, but if you have a mortgage, you get bog all for months and then only get help with the interest. If you have savings, you get bog all until they are gone. If your partner gets a job in a pub, you get bog all.....

 

The only way to benefit from the benefit system is to sit on your backside and do nothing for yourself. Then you get paid. Better still if you can pop out a few kids, then you get a bigger house and more cash. Jackpot is to successfuly fake a mobility problem, then you get a free car, extra money AND a blue badge for parking.

 

No point blaming the players - talk to the umpires! :evil:

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The D.A.B car, yeah right tell me about it.

 

One person I know who hasn't worked for years allegedly through illnes goes to Greece for three weeks at a time with his wife. He has a DAB car. He can't drive and has no intention of doing so. His wife uses it for getting back and too from work. Oh yes, and he is in a council house.

 

Another one is somebody who takes himself and his mate fishing for three days and nights at a time in a DAB car. It belongs to his wife who is registered disabled, but she gets the bus to work.

 

Sorry , these kind of threads are not for me, I'm going back to writing my usual old krap.

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I can certainly see your point Wingy and I doubt if I'd be able to keep my mouth shut if it was happening right infront of me every day..... you'd think checks would be made as to how the money, car etc are being used eh :shock:

 

But you do have to remember that not all people are conning the system just because they go on foreign holidays. Disability can take many forms and some conditions are improved by warmer climates so going abroad in our chillier months may be for that reason.

 

Same with someone else driving a DAB car... the car comes out of the claimants disability allowance and other drivers are allowed if the person with the disability can't drive themselves hence why it's called a mobility allowance..... it gets you mobile.

 

However, like you say for or another person to be using the DAB car for their own use whilst the person actually in receipt of the mobility allowance uses the bus is clearly a scam :evil:

 

If its any conselation though any damage found on the the DAB car at the end of the usual 3 year term is charged to person in receipt of the allowance at a rather high rate :shock::?

 

There will always be people who take advantage just as there will always be people who will not claim through pride or whatever but while you have got me thinking .....

 

how about disabled parking permit holders... I know thats on a much smaller scale but how many drivers do you see parking in disabled bays when they clearly are not disabled themselves and there is no-one else with them at the time... :evil:

 

Sleep well Wingy and dream about buxom wenches and wiggly maggots :lol:

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