Paul Kennedy Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Daily Mail and others have reported the following: Motorists guilty of minor 'crimes' such as parking misdemeanours are to be hit with a ?15 surcharge to help victims of domestic violence or sex attacks. The amount will be added to fixed penalty tickets given out by police for breaking parking regulations, contravening a stop sign, speeding and even having dirty windows. Motorists will be forced by law to pay the charge ? even though their offence has no 'victim'. Currently only those fined in court for more serious offences are liable to pay the surcharge. Ministers say they want to extend the payment to all types of fixed penalties as soon as possible. Matthew Elliott of the TaxPayers' Alliance said: 'If the Treasury wants to raise money from the courts, it should be more honest and call this surcharge a "justice tax". 'By calling it a "victims' surcharge" and applying it to minor motoring offences and parking tickets where there are clearly no victims, the Government is making a mockery of the tax system. 'This is clearly another stealth tax designed to plug Britain's huge debt.' In a Parliamentary answer slipped out before the Christmas recess, ministers confirmed that they intend to extend the victim surcharge to all fixed penalty notices and, most controversially, 'road traffic offences'. Just a thought, shouldn't those who have committed the violent crimes be the ones compensating their victims, and upon conviction shouldn't a court order be made against their current/future assets and earnings. PS I guess that there will now be a dramatic increase in fixed penalty notices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Will the Tories be reversing this nonsense??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hang on a minute. If I speed and someone steps into the road and I kill them, I am guilty of a serious crime. If I do the same speed on the same road and nobody steps out, Paul no longer considers it a crime? You've lost me there, mate. The crime is flying down the road not giving a stuff about the safety of anyone else and I committed it. Only sheer blind luck on the day gives rise to your "victimless crimes". I don't see why lucky criminals should avoid the penalty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 The point is, if you don't hit anyone there is no immediate victim. So who receives your "victim surcharge"? The Treasury. Who might give some of it to some victim support organisation, who in turn will spend most of it on bureaucracy and political correctness. If you do hit someone who steps out in front of you, then you are likely to be found guilty of a far more serious offence - regardless of whether or not your speed was actually a factor in the collision. This offence will then be dealt with by a court, not via a fixed penalty, and the court has the power to impose a compensation payment should it wish. Having said that, there is already over ?40million of unpaid compensation out there which courts have ordered real criminals to pay to real victims, but which no-one in the justice system has bothered to enforce the collection of. So this really does smack of a desperate attempt at revenue grabbing by picking out soft targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I tend to agree there LP.. and I also agree with Pauls comment that those committing violent crimes should be paying compensation to their victims but that obviously wont rake in a lot of money especially if they have been locked up. Anyway the increase will also apparently apply to fixed penalties for those using a mobile phone while driving, not wearing a seatbelt and also people found scrawling graffiti or being drunk and disorderly. Easy solution is to not do something you shouldn't be doing that way you wont have to worry about the ?15 increase in the fines How will the increase be implemented for fixed penalties for parking though as round here it is the council who issue the penalties and collect the money not the police.. and there are also the 'private' parking enforcement people too I can't see what all the fuss is about as it's only ?15... I think it's the reason they have given for the increase is what has actually annoyed people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 HM Treasury have refused to give details of how this money will be spent, and has certainly refused to ringfence it solely for compensation payments to victims. So it's a stealth justice tax dishonestly labelled, not a victims surcharge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hang on a minute. If I speed and someone steps into the road and I kill them, I am guilty of a serious crime. If I do the same speed on the same road and nobody steps out, Paul no longer considers it a crime? You've lost me there, mate. The crime is flying down the road not giving a stuff about the safety of anyone else and I committed it. Only sheer blind luck on the day gives rise to your "victimless crimes". I don't see why lucky criminals should avoid the penalty! But interestingly the serious criminal, i.e. the one who gets sent to prison doesn't pay the ?15. PS Where did I say that I don't regard speeding as a crime. Regarding the examples you give, they are of course both crimes, but one is more serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Having said that, there is already over ?40million of unpaid compensation out there which courts have ordered real criminals to pay to real victims, but which no-one in the justice system has bothered to enforce the collection of. So this really does smack of a desperate attempt at revenue grabbing by picking out soft targets. You've got it in one Inky P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I think you ladies? need to step outside of your circles and look at the bigger picture. This mob in Whitehall DON'T look at the overall picture and look for cheap hits that can generate revenue. Whilst I 100% agree that motorists who break the law should be punished, I don't think it is at the top of the pecking order. Dismayed, you have toooo much money!!!!!!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Will the Tories be reversing this nonsense??? Good question Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I think you ladies? need to step outside of your circles and look at the bigger picture. What circle is that then Peter.... to say someone needs to 'step out of the circle' usually implies that they should remove themselves from a situation temporarily so that they can calm down and look at facts from every angle. I can only speak for myself of course but I have no need to calm down as I wasn't getting stressed out about it and I stand by the comment that anyone who does something they shouldn't do can't moan about a fine they receive for doing it This mob in Whitehall DON'T look at the overall picture and look for cheap hits that can generate revenue. Whilst I 100% agree that motorists who break the law should be punished, I don't think it is at the top of the pecking order. I agree but as they are breaking the law they can't complain about having an extra ?15 on their fine. Dismayed, you have toooo much money!!!!!!!. Maybe that's cos I don't have to spend it on fines. So the ?15 I will save each time I park my car correctly, or fo stick to the speed limit, or don't use my mobile whilst driving MAY compensate slightly for the many ?thousands I have paid to the government in Corporation Tax today Happy new year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Welcome to the new era of austerity: the Government is heavily in debt and strapped for cash, and will be seizing any and every opportunity to increase their revenue by any means. So don't look for any logical relationship between crimes and "victims" in all this; and in any event, if you've been caught doing something illegal paying increased levels of fines may serve as a deterent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Seems I remember a revolution happening when too many taxes were in place -taxation without representation ring a bell?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Revolutions require either desparation or bottle or both - so the UKs quite safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyMac Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 It isn't a tax, it's a fine: simply follow the rules, don't break the law, and it won't affect you one iota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I could be wrong, but isn't the use of this fine the problem not the fining for breaking the law??? Dismayed, I understand it as meaning that when in the circle, you can't see the wood for the trees, nothing to do with calmness or lack of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ok I can't see any wood or trees from where I'm sitting though only black plastic and neon blue lights...and try as hard as I might I just can't get myself into a circular shape... maybe that's my problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Ok I can't see any wood or trees from where I'm sitting though only black plastic and neon blue lights...and try as hard as I might I just can't get myself into a circular shape... maybe that's my problem Try changing the medication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Prescription or the home prescribed sort from the spirit world... actually it's not spirits at all its fruit based Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Either, but I hope you aren't taking them both at the same time. (Read the small print) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I can't read the small print as my eyes can only read font size 8 and above. I do know I can't take Lemsips though... and they are fruit based too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 made from apples, well mostly apples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 I would favour a solution whereby the perpetrator of the crime gets a fine and then his immediate family; if living in social housing or on benefits, gets thrown out and has all their money stopped. If they live in private housing, the house should be seized and sold and the profits given to the victim of the crime and the wife and kids thrown out to rely on charity and handouts from relatives. Now that would make someone think twice if their kids and wife or girlfriend was to get a severe punishment too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Don't think most would be bothered. It hasn't stopped school kids playing truant knowing that their parents will get into trouble. It's the me me me era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 I would favour a solution whereby the perpetrator of the crime gets a fine and then his immediate family; if living in social housing or on benefits, gets thrown out and has all their money stopped. If they live in private housing, the house should be seized and sold and the profits given to the victim of the crime and the wife and kids thrown out to rely on charity and handouts from relatives. Now that would make someone think twice if their kids and wife or girlfriend was to get a severe punishment too.... No it wouldn't. It would just punish a lot of innocent and decent people who had no idea there was a scumbag in their family. People who commit crimes, by definition, have no interest in the consequences of their actions for other people. You've had too much caffeine again, Baz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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