Rwanda delusion -

[Observer II]

Finally, the Gov have got their Rwanda Bill into law.   But, at great expense, what will it actually achieve ?   The Tories argue that it will be "a deterent" to making the Channel crossing, but if the risk of drowning in the Channel doesn't represent a deterent,  how the hell will possible deportation to Rwanda act as a deterent ?   As for Lab/Libs, they've no intention of reducing immigration,  they can't wait to throw the doors open to the world, and invite their diverse voters in.    The obvious solution from the start was to take the "rescued" migrants back to Calais instead of taxing them to Dover, as Richard Tice argues.   So if you want an end to this farce - vote for Reform.    😠

[Bill]

I think it would definitely deter people but as you say, just intercepting them and taking them back to France would have been simpler and just as effective.

Where we seem to go wrong in this country is that rather than just look at what works elsewhere, we waste time trying to come up with something different. Then on top of this, we have politicians who try their best scupper any plan by objecting to anything the opposition to put party suggests.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

There no way imo that this will "deter" people, that have travelled half way round the world to get here, the latest cohort being from Vietnam, one of the safest countries in Asia now.   These are economic refugees, searching for "a better life", can't blame them for trying, but we should defend our borders against being flooded with these people. It's quite ironic, that our politicians talk about "defence" in terms of keeping the Russians out, but are allowing the physical invasion of our Nation by migrants.  The attraction of the UK, is that we are seen as a soft touch by these migrants, time we hardened our policies.   😠

[Bill]

If sending them thousands of miles back in the direction they came from isn’t a deterrent then you have to accept that sending them back a few miles to France would be even less. They’d simply join the queue for the next available dingy or sneak on board the lorries, neither of which they can exactly do from Rwanda.

Could be it won’t work, but at least we’d have known by now if we’d have tried, but instead we wasted the last two years arguing about it, and we still don’t know. As the saying goes, “you’ll never know unless you try.” The only thing we’re good at here is making speeches and talking an issue into the ground.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

How many do you think they can fly out there Bill ?   There's around 30,000 plus in hotels over here, being fed and watered by the taxpayers.   Instead of UKBF taking them to Dover, they take them to Calais - simple.   

[Bill]

If it’s to be a deterrent, then the priority has to be to target the ones that are about to set off. They’re going to think twice about paying the traffickers if there’s a high probability they’re going to be immediately deported. Trying to deport the 30,000 already here would take too long and while that was happening, more would likely just keep on coming. A hard line needs to be drawn, so once everything’s in place, they should warn prospective illegals that as of a specified date, the chances are you’ll be immediately deported.  

Of course we could all come up with differing solutions, most of which would probably work but I’d have thought that the decision to go down the current line wasn’t taken by any individual but by a collective with far more insight than the likes of you and me. We can chew the fat on the subject till the cows come home but the country needs to stop talking now and make things happen.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

The French could end this tomorrow, if they properly policed their shores, they've had £millions off us up to now.   The only way to stop this is to physically stop them crossing.😠

[Bill]

I remember reading somewhere that the French do actually stop a lot of the crossings but something that doesn’t happen tends not to make the news. We see the ones that manage to make it, so the assumption is that the French aren’t doing their jobs. The problem of course is if they stop them on the beaches then the chances are they’ll just try again the following day. So, whether the French stop them, or we send them back, they’re just going to keep trying. It’s a costly and endless battle that can’t ever be won and numbers will only continue to increase.

It's exactly the same situation that we have with our drugs problem. Without any real deterrent, the police chase down and confiscate the drugs only to find the following day they’re back chasing exactly the same people. It’s just one big game for the both the dealers and users where the only risk to them is a temporary short-term loss. The only way to break these endless no-win loops is to have a strong deterrent.

If it were announced that as of tomorrow anyone found in possession or dealing drugs or indeed attempting to enter the country illegally would be immediately jailed for life (or shipped out to Rwanda) then that would stop the problem in it’s tracks. As soon as it becomes apparent that this is happening rather than could happen, the loop’s broken and problem goes away.

That’s my theory anyway.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Thought for a minute you were going to talk about real deterents Bill,   like Singapore has for drug offences = death penalty !    These migrants, mainly young men, are not short of cash to pay the traffickers,  but often have travelled half way round the globe and faced many risks to get to the UK.    So the threat of deportation to Rwanda will have zero deterent effect, as they will no doubt start another journey from Rwanda to the UK.  The only deterent is to physically block entry into the UK, by taking them back to Calais instead of Dover, and by legislation to make illegal migrants ineligible for asylum, thus immediate deportation back to France or their country of origin.   Why we talk about third  Countries like Rwanda, when we have Embassies all over the world, where asylum applications could be processed is beyond me.  As for the French, clearly their Police have a half hearted attitude to stopping these crossings, despite being paid £millions by the UK taxpayer.   This problem applies to the whole of Europe and the USA, only determined Governments like Poland and Hungary have the strength of character to resist it.    😠

[ninearches]

Perhaps the source of the rubber dinghies needs to be cut off , somebody is supplying them. Then get into the faces of the traffickers.

[Bill]

It’s a Domestos solution, nothing will stop 100%.

99.9% of all know illegals would do nicely though. 😊

It’s like a game of snakes and ladders where we provide all the ladders, and the snakes are small.

Taking them back to France is a small snake. Better luck next time.

Rwanda on the other hand is a top line full of bloody big snakes that takes everyone right back to the square one.

They’d soon get fed up playing that game. 😊

 

Catching the traffickers Davey is just like catching drug dealers. You stop one and someone else is ready and waiting to take over and that’s why in all the years, the problem’s not been solved, and the situation continues to worsen.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Seems we're passing some of the problem onto the Irish,  and I don't think the Irish will be as docile as the Brits, so things could kick off big time !      😑

[Bill]

The Irish are often thought of as being a bit thick, but they’ve shown they have a lot more common sense than us by only offering them tents rather than hotels. Clearly a lot of Irish people aren’t going to be happy about this, suggesting the sudden increase is wholly due to the Rwanda bill being passed. So, when they show interviews with the illegals saying Rwanda won’t deter them from trying, it’s worth bearing this in mind.

Immigration came up in the pub Wednesday night and unsurprisingly, just about everyone in there was blaming the French for not doing enough. Probably true, but I decided it was wiser to keep my mouth shut on the subject, especially after a few pints. 😊

Shopping time. ☹

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Bill, they'll be lucky to get one plane load off to Rwanda, if at all.   We've got over 30,000 living in hotels, most still waiting for asylum decisions, while some commit rape and murder to occupy their time.    😠

[Bill]

Yes, but as I said, Rwanda’s not for them, it’s for the ones that haven’t crossed yet.

Don’t get me wrong, if it were up to me I’d probably be doing what you suggest, but the Rwanda decision’s been made now so we need to at least give it a try, and If it turns out it doesn’t work then we just try something else.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

use a hercules troop transport full, parachutes provided, don't even have to land. open the back door and kick em out. Parachute will provide a nice temporary shelter when the land.

four flights a day soon make a dent in the numbers

give the pilots some in flight training as well as some of the troops to prevent any takeover attempt.

 

[Observer II]

Perhaps in another dimension Sid,  but our current crop of political lightweights couldn't do anything that looks like a solution.  

[Observer II]

Well, the Irish have come up with a touch of irony -  their PM has decided to produce a law that will enable migrants to be sent back to the UK !    Now, if it's legally possible for the Irish to do that, surely it's legally possible for the UK to send them back to France ?     

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

Well, the Irish have come up with a touch of irony -  their PM has decided to produce a law that will enable migrants to be sent back to the UK !    Now, if it's legally possible for the Irish to do that, surely it's legally possible for the UK to send them back to France ?     

France is not in the Common travel area so no it isn't possible. Try to get it into your head that France doesn't want these people to be in Calais either. We CANNOT just send them back there, and practically hardly ever did when we were in the EU and theoretically could. The problem is not really the French so much as it is Home Office Staff who it seems, for some reason, do not wish to reduce illegal immigration. You know the Union support the Home Office staff in this position. Without sacking the staff nothing changes because they are not under control by the Government, therefore it does not matter who is the Government. That is the fundamental problem of Public Services today, they are run for the benefit of the staff and not the public that they are supposed to serve.

 

[Observer II]

Well, I agree with you on that, the civil service has been taken over by woke liberal lefties, who need replacing imo.  But if the Irish can send them back, surely we can do the same ?   It requires political will, which none of the main Parties have.     😠

[Confused52]

14 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Well, I agree with you on that, the civil service has been taken over by woke liberal lefties, who need replacing imo.  But if the Irish can send them back, surely we can do the same ?   It requires political will, which none of the main Parties have.     😠

The Common Travel Area rules require that the Immigration policies of the UK and Irish Republic are aligned so that after entry into either state there is no immigration check needed to travel to the other states in the CTA. The Irish can return them to the first EU country in which they sought asylum, if any. There is no way to prevent the Dail legislating to send unwanted persons who have entered the UK lawfully and are undesirable in Ireland, back to the UK,  However if they entered the UK unlawfully it breaks the Common Travel Area agreement which is cemented in the Belfast (Good Friday) agreement and I suspect that those who have entered illegally will not be accepted by the UK and if the Irish law tries to allow that we can expect a big row with the UK requiring that Ireland sends them back to France. 

[Observer II]

Well, that sounds a bit better, assuming HMG have got the balls to do it.   😠   Seems HMG have ordered a round up of the illegals in the UK, ready for deportation to Rwanda, alas they may just be appearing tough at election time.  

[Confused52]

From the BBC web site:

a UK government source said the UK “won’t accept any asylum returns from the EU via Ireland until the EU accepts that we can send them back to France.”

 

[Observer II]

We'll see if they've got the spines to do it.  😠

[Bill]

Last time it did seem that it was the unions control over the home office that put a spanner in the works. The unions claimed they couldn’t allow their members to do anything thought to be break any laws. Hopefully now with the Rwanda plan being made legal, they won’t be able to do the same, but I have a worrying feeling they’ll still try.

The government said this morning that they’re immediately going to start compiling lists of people to deport but immediate isn’t a word the government seems to understand. If as they claim that everything’s in place, then they could make the everyone happy by starting to deportation tomorrow, but as usual they won’t do that.

 

Bill 😊