Bin Strike

[Confused52]

Instead of telling us that a further bin strike is unacceptable, which we know, what the council should be telling us is whether they have applied to the High Court for an injunction against Unite to prevent the unlawful strike threatened from 21 Nov to 4 Dec!

[Confused52]

Seems they have finally applied for an injunction but too late. The union claim they have a local agreement with Newham Council. However the council have agreed to do things that they cannot afford, because they will have to pay others more, and to change things that they do not have the authority to change and the people that do have the authority, HM Treasury and Local Govmt dept will not do because it will cost more. Disaster already made, negotiations needed for contractor to replace the service needs putting in place now and started before the strike reachs 12 weeks when the strikers can be sacked.

[Bill]

Can anyone explain in simple terms why they’re still striking while the rest of the country isn’t?

It can’t go on like this, bins are starting to smell and the traffic congestion at the Woolston tip is getting worse. There’s loads of stuff on Facebook but no answers as to why it’s happening.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

money.

our mob want an extra £1000 one off payment on top of the agreed national rise, anything else is just smoke and mirrors to justify their action.

of course i could be wrong.

[Observer II]

Could be a sting in the tail from  this bin saga - seems Ribble Council failed to take the bins, due to the lids being frozen closed -  life gets dafter by the day.     😄

[Bill]

I don't suppose they could do much about that.

We should hear today how the case went at the high court although I suspect if it goes against the unions then they'll simply apeal and carry on their action.

We've not been too bad, the black bin has been emptied several times but the bins are both full now. I've been putting thr recycling stuff in the garage so I don't have to queue at the tip but I don't think it'd be good to do that with the food waste.

 

Bill

[Confused52]

Well we have heard, and the rights of 90500 households are outweighed by those of 75 strikers who clearly hold the rest of us in contempt. It is time to call the MOD and request aid to the Civil Power whilst getting an outside contractor to do the bin service ASAP,  then after 12 weeks of strikes (when it ceases to be protected action) sacking the 75 for breach of contract. Our quality of life is being destroyed by unions, be it local government, the post, the railways, the NHS or central government. The unions appear to be running the country and Labour are promising more freedoms to the unions to do more of it. God help us to find the money to pay the extra tax that Labour are going to throw at their mates to stop this quasi "General Strike" that the unions have assembled.

[Observer II]

Are these binmen on a permanent strike or an intermitant one ?   My bins are now full, and I'm having to fill bin bags,  will they take the bin bags when/if they eventually get back to work ?    😠

[Confused52]

57 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Are these binmen on a permanent strike or an intermitant one ?   My bins are now full, and I'm having to fill bin bags,  will they take the bin bags when/if they eventually get back to work ?    😠

It is notionally intermittent, they told the high court it was discontinuous, but there are no gaps so it seems continuous until at least Christmas Eve.

[Evil Sid]

2 hours ago, Observer II said:

My bins are now full, and I'm having to fill bin bags,  will they take the bin bags when/if they eventually get back to work ?    😠

in theory they should, but you do have the option of doing their job for them and taking your rubbish to the various waste disposal sites dotted about the town.

if you work out how much it cost the council to empty your bin i am sure they will reimburse you for it when they take your next council tax payment...🤣

just thought that has occurred. with the setting up of the three extra sites eg victoria park, how do you get your rubbish there is you no longer have a car?

i don't suppose Warrington's own bus company would look too kindly on pensioners using the bus pass to carry two binbags full on the bus....

[Bill]

If they’re on strike until Christmas Eve, we may as well assume it’ll be next year before there’s any chance of getting anything collected.

I see the council have arranged a few extra collection points but on the grand scale of things, I doubt it’ll make much difference to the length of the queues at the main sites. I drove through Orford the other day and all along Grasmere Avenue it was a disgusting site with all the communal collection points completely overflowing onto the road.

Not many drivers are honking their horns in support now as people start to realize just how much upset and worry their inflicting on the people of Warrington, and I’m surprised nobodies suggested any kind of direct action yet, like a counter demonstration.

 

Bill 😊

[Lt Kije]

On 12/1/2023 at 5:20 PM, Confused52 said:

Well we have heard, and the rights of 90500 households are outweighed by those of 75 strikers who clearly hold the rest of us in contempt. It is time to call the MOD and request aid to the Civil Power whilst getting an outside contractor to do the bin service ASAP,  then after 12 weeks of strikes (when it ceases to be protected action) sacking the 75 for breach of contract. Our quality of life is being destroyed by unions, be it local government, the post, the railways, the NHS or central government. The unions appear to be running the country and Labour are promising more freedoms to the unions to do more of it. God help us to find the money to pay the extra tax that Labour are going to throw at their mates to stop this quasi "General Strike" that the unions have assembled.

Making a more general point, as my bins don't come under Warrington, I am in favour of unions, Workers have the right to withdraw their labour, if your quality of life is diminishing, you could always go to the tip, the unions actually have very little power these days

[Confused52]

1 minute ago, Lt Kije said:

Making a more general point, as my bins don't come under Warrington, I am in favour of unions, Workers have the right to withdraw their labour, if your quality of life is diminishing, you could always go to the tip, the unions actually have very little power these days

In your dreams they have little power. The have little power in the private sector but in the public sector the opposite is true. The Major Public Sector unions appear to have agree a strategy to cause maximum discomfort to the Government.

So we have,

On the Railways the RMT/ASLEF/TSSA - RMT caused major disruption on Avanti because they did not agree the changes to network wide changes in rosters. The Euston and Liverpool would only work the old rosters and trains that had changed couldn't run. RMT did that to Arriva Northern years ago and they did it to the Operator of Last Resort Northern Railway last December for 6 months leading to extended cancellations. ASLEF do it regularly too along with refusing to do anything not explicitly on their rosters.

The CPSA essentially decided on a go slow on asylum applications because they opposed Government policy. Including trying to be associated with a judicial review against the Government; the judge refused as policy wasn't their business "Servant" etc. Then there was the Border Force strike where the Army were called in.

NHS - Doctors, Nurses, Ambulance strikes do you remember those.

Teachers went on strike

Oh also various Local Government workers being members particularly of Unite where in Warrington it has been the Binmen.

I am pleased for you as a supporter of Unions but they are pretty much ruining my retirement and the Binmen are not my biggest problem.

There is a class of person that will do anything to "cock a snook" at the Conservative party irrespective of the harm they cause to the general public who are not politically motivated like them, it is very annoying.

 

[Lt Kije]

8 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

In your dreams they have little power. The have little power in the private sector but in the public sector the opposite is true. The Major Public Sector unions appear to have agree a strategy to cause maximum discomfort to the Government.

So we have,

On the Railways the RMT/ASLEF/TSSA - RMT caused major disruption on Avanti because they did not agree the changes to network wide changes in rosters. The Euston and Liverpool would only work the old rosters and trains that had changed couldn't run. RMT did that to Arriva Northern years ago and they did it to the Operator of Last Resort Northern Railway last December for 6 months leading to extended cancellations. ASLEF do it regularly too along with refusing to do anything not explicitly on their rosters.

The CPSA essentially decided on a go slow on asylum applications because they opposed Government policy. Including trying to be associated with a judicial review against the Government; the judge refused as policy wasn't their business "Servant" etc. Then there was the Border Force strike where the Army were called in.

NHS - Doctors, Nurses, Ambulance strikes do you remember those.

Teachers went on strike

Oh also various Local Government workers being members particularly of Unite where in Warrington it has been the Binmen.

I am pleased for you as a supporter of Unions but they are pretty much ruining my retirement and the Binmen are not my biggest problem.

There is a class of person that will do anything to "cock a snook" at the Conservative party irrespective of the harm they cause to the general public who are not politically motivated like them, it is very annoying.

 

You are aware I take it that the changes in rosters that you mentioned would require people to work more weekends with no extra money

[Confused52]

56 minutes ago, Lt Kije said:

You are aware I take it that the changes in rosters that you mentioned would require people to work more weekends with no extra money

No they were not the ones that might be in the future I was talking of actual past changes and they were not about a seven day railway just better utilisation of staff and no more hours and certainly not Sunday working. The reason for the Northern Railways roster issue was that the company gave the information to RMT a day too late! We suffered six months of disrupted services on the Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester route because of that. If that is not union power I don't know what is.

On the changes currently proposed I have now discovered that many who protest loudly haven't actually understood what the offer actually is. They see that flexibility is needed and assume that they are being exploited. I have found a number of cases online of railway staff complaining about changes they believe the union has told them are in the offer which are in fact excluded in the actual offer document. Lots of people fall for scaremongering when subjects are complex.

[Lt Kije]

The Strike is about pay, changes to working hours as I mentioned and changes to their pension scheme, meaning reduced pensions whilst actually paying more in, there's a lot more to the strike than just pay, I would be upset if people started to mess with my pension

[Bill]

Has anyone else noticed that that there’s often a distinct whiff of burning in the evenings?

Last night was the worst night yet with thick smoke from someone clearly burning paper or cardboard. I can just about tolerate the smell of wood or garden stuff burning but paper really stinks especially when you’re downwind of it.

I know we’re told not to do this sort of thing, but those who’re unable to get their rubbish to the tip probably see it as their only option.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

i just put it down to those with log burning stoves trying to keep warm, there are one or two round here.

Chimenea's seem popular as well as fire pits as the weather grows colder but people still want to entertain out side.

then again there is the garden waste  such as the leaves from nearby trees which need to be disposed of whilst the green bins (black bins and blue bins) are not being emptied, so a small garden fire  has to be started with something that is not soggy.

all of these are likely explanations but as you suspect bill probably people getting fed up waiting to get the bins emptied so resorting to burning what they can undercover of a garden waste fire.

i wonder how much the council is losing out to the recycling centres, they will still need paying whether they get materials to recycle or not.

[Bill]

I’ve not been to the tip yet so I’m not sure if they’re doing any recycling or just taking in general bin waste. Given the length of the queues, it’d make sense for the council to advise people to only take their bagged household waste and not to spend time sorting it into different skips.

On the burning of waste and the impacts on the environment, it’s only a temporary thing and in any case people have done it for centuries and we’re still here. Seem to remember a similar thing happening years ago where some councils tried to impose fines, even resorting to the use of helicopter surveillance. 😊

Another thing I’m not sure of is how long could this go on for? I thought there was only a certain amount of time workers could be on strike before it became legal to replace then with contract workers.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

if that is the case bill then i am sure the unions are aware of this and have ways of negating it.

one way would be to end the strike on a day when they are not required to work ( possibly Sunday) and then start to strike again the following day for the maximum length of time. If there is something that says they can't resume the same strike then i am sure they can get away with it by tagging an extra demand on so they can say that it is not the same dispute.

despite whatever rules are applied there are always clever/devious buggers who can find a loophole...🕵️‍♂️

[Bill]

The good news is that the strike’s finally over today in time for Christmas. They said on telly that they were starting work Friday (today) but that’s going to be difficult given the bin men don’t work Fridays and more importantly with such short notice, nobody’s going to have their bins out.

The main tips are keeping their extended opening times for now but the extra drop off points have been immediately closed and that doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Will they take bin sacks ?   

[Evil Sid]

did wonder why there was a bin wagon trying not to take the front end off my car.

My regular bin day is Friday so maybe it is Sunday they don't work.

will have to have a look on the council website to see what the schedule is for emptying which bin. 

had a quick look on the council site and they are advising that if you are not sure which bin is to be emptied then put both out and they will empty whichever one is due that collection day. no mention of additional bagged waste though.

looking at the schedule of collection days that the council stuck to the bins then today i should have put out my blue bin and next week it will be my black bin. 

oh well at least i know they are being emptied now so another two weeks before my blue bin gets emptied, which is the only one that is full, still some room in the black bin.

[Bill]

Someone told me that the bin men only work four days a week so I assumed they didn’t work Fridays???

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

Someone told me that the bin men only work four days a week so I assumed they didn’t work Fridays???

 

Bill 😊

The missing day for Binmen is Monday, it is so they don't mess rotations up on Bank Holidays which are mostly Mondays.

For some places which have Friday as the usual day the Bin that was emptied was not the one in the schedule. As a result they changed the instruction to put both bins out at 0900 this morning. A friend's bin was emptied at 0830 and they emptied the opposite type to that advertised the previous evening at 2100, earlier in the day it had been different again. Hence the instruction to put both out for today and normal collection day for the next two weeks. They have no idea what they are doing. They have previously said that they will take extra bags but I suspect that will only apply to black bin waste as they do not accept outer bin bags in recycling waste (suppose they would have to open the bag after tipping when it is already in the waste stream and acts as a contaminant ruining the load (11% of the time, apparently)).

The schedule has once again been taken off the website to stop confusing us punters!

 

PS the two extra  Mon-Fri 1000-1600 drop off points will re-open on Monday next, until further notice. See Gary's story

Household waste drop-off points to resume from Monday - Warrington Worldwide (warrington-worldwide.co.uk)