HS2 ?

[Observer II]

Why is it that the UK seems incapable of completing major infrastructure objectives, without cost overuns ?    

[Bill]

I think when it was first proposed they maybe didn’t anticipate that the environmentalists would force them to put most of it underground and that’s really racked up the cost.

 

Bill  

[Observer II]

The impression I got, was that it was NIMBY Tories along the route that forced them to tunnel, which would have jacked up the costs, but I also got the impression, that some salaries are over-inflated and there's insufficient fiscal monitoring by Gov accountants.   

[Evil Sid]

because the major contractors know that once the gov have accepted the tender then they are committed to finish it at any cost rather than lose face by scrapping the project.

the mere mention of a gov contract has contractors rubbing their hands and booking the next holiday in the Bahamas.

[Observer II]

Can't say I was ever in favour of HS2,  as it seemed to me to be all about London.  What the North needs is more connectivity E-W .

[ninearches]

With some improvement there is no reason why a suitable connection can't be made to Manchester via Warrington & Earlestown where there is a direct junction with the old Liverpool & Manchester railway. There is really probably no need for such a project anyway with the advent of zoom for the businessmen of today & i'm sure there would adequate scope within the present route to make necessary improvements. There could even be a line added for none stop or just limited stops between Crewe & Manchester.

It puzzles me though why we don't even hear the word millions anymore. At a billion being a thousand million that sure is some rate of inflation.

[Bill]

It’s a pity they couldn’t have come up with some revolutionary new method of getting between north and south quickly without having to keep stopping and that way the existing tracks would probably have been good enough.

Imagine an autonomous modular system where the main train doesn’t need to slow down or stop and instead a section could just decouple and stop at the station while the main train carries on. Meanwhile passengers boarding at that same station would leave in a similar autonomous unit which would then be caught up with and coupled with the main train. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility in this day and age.

Writing this I’ve got a distinct feeling of déjà vu 

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

You seem to be confusing people with mail bags!

[ninearches]

I wonder if Sunak is reading the forum & getting the right ideas to placate Burnham ?

[Bill]

Well Con, sort of a similar principle I suppose.

But I look at it this way.

If we can make cars that can drive themselves anywhere in the country on roads with potential hazards everywhere, then we should be able to guide a carriage on rails safely into a station. It’s not exactly rocket science stuff these days but something like this could have saved the country billions of pounds and put us out in front with the technolgy rather than being the laughingstock that we are at the moment.

Plus, the same thing could be used on all lines speeding up journey times between major cities while at the same time improving the service to all the small stops in-between.

 

Bill 😊

[Lt Kije]

Sadly the West Coast line is at capacity. HS2, would have taken passengers off the west coastline, allowing more goods onto it

[Observer II]

Problems with the rail infrastructure are centred around rail hubs, not the main lines.  

[Lt Kije]

19 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Problems with the rail infrastructure are centred around rail hubs, not the main lines.  

Build a rail hub and you will find business moves to it, 

The cancellation of HS2 tells you all you need to know about what this government think about levelling up, just another lie from a Tory government, told to those idiots in the red wall seats that stupidly voted blue

[Observer II]

😄   It must be really galling for you Kije, to realise that the lower knuckle dragging classes outvote you !   😀

[Confused52]

3 hours ago, Lt Kije said:

Sadly the West Coast line is at capacity. HS2, would have taken passengers off the west coastline, allowing more goods onto it

Correct, as well as reducing the capacity needed south of Northampton to allow maintenance which currently occurs at too low a rate on the WCML. Not building the Manchester leg also prevents traffic from the East Coast using Manchester as an alternative to the ECML to reduce congestion at the southern end towards Kings Cross. HS2 was about much more that a faster journey time from Birmingham and Manchester. 

[Lt Kije]

13 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

Correct, as well as reducing the capacity needed south of Northampton to allow maintenance which currently occurs at too low a rate on the WCML. Not building the Manchester leg also prevents traffic from the East Coast using Manchester as an alternative to the ECML to reduce congestion at the southern end towards Kings Cross. HS2 was about much more that a faster journey time from Birmingham and Manchester. 

Yes HS2 was about much more than faster journey times, sadly to many did not see that

[Lt Kije]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

😄   It must be really galling for you Kije, to realise that the lower knuckle dragging classes outvote you !   😀

No, what is galling is that they like you fell for the lie, and they like you still haven't noticed, or refuse to see or admit that they were taken in, can I ask, if you walk and talk like a knucklehead are you a Knuckle head?, 

[Observer II]

😄   Poor Kije.    😑

[Evil Sid]

the question that crops up in my mind is do we need to get from A-B so quickly.

Unless it is to prevent loss of life then the answer is probably not.

Video conferencing is now well established so any meeting does not require the attendance physically of all the members or even any of the members.

I had to contact my doctor this week and was told that they would call me later on. i received a text to ask for pictures of the particular problem which i uploaded to the link provided. when the doctor called they asked me a couple of questions gave me a diagnosis based on the pictures and my answers and sent a prescription to the pharmacy. all done without leaving my house.

people seem to be rushing around to get to various places as fast as they can so that they can then rush back again.

it is a bit like all those labour saving "smart" devices that will save you time during your day so that you have more time to rush around or spend what time you have saved programming the Smart devices so you have more time.

[Bill]

That’s true Sid so I suppose the question should be how badly do you need to go there rather than how long should it take.

I think if we could have known in advance about covid and its long-term effects on how we work, then I doubt HS2 wouldn’t have ever even got off the ground.  But given the situation now, they need to at least complete the bit they’ve already started and put further expansion on hold, possibly for a time when demand and economics are a bit easier.

Edit And that's more or less what was just anounced. 

 

Bill 😊

[ninearches]

Given that many train operators are cancelling services due to staff shortages ,i would be interested to know where they would find the extra staff for HS2

[Observer II]

Africa  ? !😄

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, ninearches said:

Given that many train operators are cancelling services due to staff shortages ,i would be interested to know where they would find the extra staff for HS2

HS2 was never about extra services. The existing West Coast Services will mostly use HS2 tracks from Handsacre (N of Lichfield) to Old Oak Common and Euston. Unless you want somewhere between Euston and the Central line it will probably be faster to change at Old Oak Common and much faster if you want to go to Heathrow, Canary Wharf or Reading. There were never going to be HS2 trains competing with Avanti, the Avanti contract included transferring the West Coast Services to HS2.