Do we want a referendum on "net zero" ?

[Observer II]

Seems Nigel is promoting the idea of a referendum on Boris's net zero policy, and the abandonment of his green agenda.   It's clear that energy costs are going to go through the roof, with this and now sanctions on Russia,  and the folk who will have to pay are the Plebs - again.    😠

[Bill]

There may be a valid argument here.

Right now, I’m trying to compile a database of my total household energy use. It’s going to take a couple of days or so, but I’m amazed to see how much my energy demand (especially electricity) has reduced over the years without me doing anything special. I didn’t want or like the energy saving bulbs when they first came out but we’ve got used to them now. The tv and computer are more modern and efficient, as are most of the other household appliances and overall, this must account for this gradual reduction in my power consumption.  And it's the same with cars where the new ones are far cleaner, and the air quality has most likely got better in recent years because of this.

But it’s worth bearing in mind that without the pressure from the green thinkers, a lot of this change wouldn’t have yet taken place.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

Well according to my new smart meters my gas and electric usage over a day is under £3.00 combined.

The central heating boiler was fitted just before they fitted the smart meters and that seems to have made quite a difference. one radiator and the whole house is at a comfortable temperature all day.

prior to that i had to use a gas fire which took ages to warm the room and was using a lot of gas. add to that led ;lighting throughout and the usage has dropped considerably from what it used to be.

mind you got the email from my supplier saying that the cost was going to rise by over 50% in the very near future. still with summer on the way i would hope that gas usage will be limited to just the cooking.

 

[Bill]

Yes Sid, I got an email last week suggesting I increase my monthly payments from £46/month to £142 just to cover the current price increases, and at that time, the war with all its implications for further price increases hadn’t even started.

But without digressing too far from Obs referendum question, I’m not sure why the prices have jumped so much, and not just here but around the world. And if it’s really a global situation that people don’t like, would a referendum serve any purpose?

 

Bill 😊

[Latchford Locks]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Yes Sid, I got an email last week suggesting I increase my monthly payments from £46/month to £142 just to cover the current price increases, and at that time, the war with all its implications for further price increases hadn’t even started.

But without digressing too far from Obs referendum question, I’m not sure why the prices have jumped so much, and not just here but around the world. And if it’s really a global situation that people don’t like, would a referendum serve any purpose?

 

Bill 😊

digressing even further Bill ... are you feel better today after your covid tussles over the weekend ?😷

[Observer II]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Yes Sid, I got an email last week suggesting I increase my monthly payments from £46/month to £142 just to cover the current price increases, and at that time, the war with all its implications for further price increases hadn’t even started.

But without digressing too far from Obs referendum question, I’m not sure why the prices have jumped so much, and not just here but around the world. And if it’s really a global situation that people don’t like, would a referendum serve any purpose?

 

Bill 😊

Bill,  this is about the increasing cost of energy due to a lack of energy self sufficiency, intensified by Boris's net zero nonsense.   Whilst I don't agree with fracking; we could carry on using coal and N/Sea oil and gas; plus some nuclear, hydro and tidal.  The Russian saga has merely exposed our vunerability and the prospect of hyper-inflated prices starting in April. As always, this will affect the average Pleb more than these Green middle class liberals; so a referendum would give the common sense of the common folk a say.   😠

[Evil Sid]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

As always, this will affect the average Pleb more than these Green middle class liberals; so a referendum would give the common sense of the common folk a say

ahh good old common sense a rare commodity indeed.

and the common folk. would these be the ones that spend all day attached to their mobile devices and have an anxiety attack if the signal drops below 2 bars, or would they be the ones with the 60" tv's who's only worry is if they have enough money to go for a pint this afternoon.

The problem with the unwashed masses of today is that they rarely look beyond the next five minutes let alone the next five years or decades.

If it does not affect them at the very moment then why worry. so in six months the world has gone into meltdown but it is not affecting them now so why worry about it.

ok so a lot of  cynicism but sadly true ((for a given value of truth) but in the end just my personal take on it.

 

[Bill]

I’m still showing positive but feeling slightly better each day. Thanks for asking Latchy.

If it’s caused by an energy shortage Obs, then aren’t you suggesting a referendum on the laws of supply and demand? The way I see it is that everything to do with the countries power requirements requires long term planning and a sudden global spike in energy prices shouldn’t result in a knee jerk deviation from the chosen route. By all accounts nobody knows how long this will last; It’s gone up but equally, it just as easily come back down just like petrol prices did a few years back.  

For now, I think we just have to bight the bullet and pay the going rate and hope the government can come up with something better than they have so far to ease the burden on the poorer sections of society,

 

Bill 😊

[ninearches]

Let's not forget that we have just come through covid where HMG has spent £billions to maintain jobs & keep people out of harms way. Now is the time to pay the piper & for every extra pound of fuel/energy revenue HMG gets 20% VAT plus increased tax off suppliers.

 

Maxing out on your bus pass is a good way to save on transport costs.

[Bill]

Loads of ways to reduce the impact but by far the most cost effective is a thermal vest and a pair of long johns. 😊

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Got them on, plus the C/Heating, and it's not even snowed yet !  The fact is, that we've been sold a pup, with this green lark; wind and sun dependency doesn't work, and is more expensive than fossil fuels. I've just been watching a prog about Neanderthals, who lived through three ice ages -  it happens, it has happened - they couldn't adapt in the end, but we could.   Now just to rub salt in, we've got an emotional frenzy of anti-Russian economic sanctions that will all blow back on us, quicker than most expect, making the post-2008 austerity decade look like a holiday.  Still I suppose it'll give us something to moan about, our main concern will be the cost cremations I guess.    😉

[Bill]

Well look on the bright side Obs, at least when your get cremated you won’t be too worried about the cold and might even get a good price for your long johns.  

The move to greener technologies isn’t a bad thing but the change process is always going to be difficult. At least unlike fossil fuels it’s an unlimited resource and it doesn’t shitty up the environment, plus once the initial cost has been covered, it’s an independent low-cost energy for the future. To some extent we’re all witnessing an inevitable evolution taking place and like it or not it’s going to happen. It’s the speed though at which these changes are being pushed forward that some (myself included) have issues with.  

Here in the UK I reckon we’ve almost sorted the climate issues but the purist greens seem obsessed with little more than absolute zero. Sometimes near enough is good enough because trying for perfection is always an expensive option.

 

Bill 😊

[ninearches]

Nuclear is still the only viable option & it needs to be brought in before fossil fuel disappears. How else will countries produce enough electricity to charge the planet saving electric cars ,buses & wagons. Just wondering how big the catapults will have to be to propel  aircraft from Manchester to New York.

[Observer II]

We hear lots of talk about energy efficiency and the need for home insulation to cut consumption, and Sunack's mini-budget has scrapped VAT on home insulation (5%).  But how much would it cost to totally insulate an older property, plus maybe add solar panels ?    That then begs the question, can folk afford it, with or without the VAT ?     

[ninearches]

All these green issues seem to come with a big price tag for the man in the street & an associated guilt trip to cajole people into signing up for them. Perhaps it would be cheaper to supply reasonably priced thermal clothing to householders because at least we know that works.

[Bill]

Knocking off the VAT just two weeks after I bought my solar panel was a bit of a bummer, I could have saved £30 but then again, I noticed that the price went up by about that much just after I bought it so no big loss.

In answer to Ob’s question of how much to reinsulate and add solar is a bloomin fortune the way we do things now. It all works but it’s well beyond the reach or the average person and too expensive for the government to get too involved. On top of that, we have the problem now and to rectify the issues for everyone would take decades. 

I feel sorry for the poorer sections of society who are already struggling to make ends meet and how they’ll go on after April’s price hike. They’re going to get higher bills next week and it’s not even winter so even issuing free thermals won’t really help.

To use an Observer expression, it’s like a shit sandwich but in this case there’s not even much bread.

 

Bill 😊