Mistakes made

[Stallard12]

With data accumulated from the last few months, it can be seen that many basic mistakes were made and are still being made.

Total lockdown is now unnecessary and is detrimental to the 90 % o f people who get little or no symptoms from the virus.  It is a medical advantage to have these groups interact with the virus in order for the bodies to develop antibodies, a slight cold is all they would suffer and they would be immune if the virus resurfaces.  Lockdown prevents this from happening and ensures that everyone stays vulnerable.  The percentage of deaths in people under 60 is only in line with other common viruses.  Nursing home residents and hospitalized aged with additional complications represent 87 % of the covid 19 deaths.

Nothing should have been shutdown, everyone under sixty should have been allowed to continue to work and socialize observing basic distancing.  All the restaurants and bars should have remained open and everyone ID' d just like you would do with underage people - no one over sixty allowed.  The facts are that if 75,000 people under sixty attended a game at Old Trafford, it is highly unlikely that any of them would die and chances are that if they came away with cold symptoms their antibodies would form and after a few games the crowds would be free and clear.   Deaths in young children in the US is .00001% of contracted cases.

Due to the draconian response of "EVERYBODY" run for cover, the economies of every country in the world has been devasted.   When in fact it should have been everybody over 60 run for cover, the rest of you take two aspirin and go to work next week.  So now we have dead people and millions with no jobs and no money.

All of the effort should have gone to protecting the sick and over sixty with a plan to protect elderly family members of workers.  I'm pretty sure that would have been nowhere near as decimating and costly as what has happened.

It's now all political, especially into US and the lawyers are standing by to leap in as soon as soon as a returning employee gets sick   As Victor Maldrew often said God I wish I was dead  

 

 

 

 

 

[asperity]

While I have to agree with a lot of what you say, most of it is with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. And while what you say may be correct it doesn't alter the fact that we are where we are and politics has taken over to the extent where the usual suspects are using the events to their own advantage. For example the teaching unions are telling their members that it is dangerous for schools to re-open because of the risk of death , not to children but to their members! The whole idea that this virus is so virulent that you only have to look at someone who may have been exposed to it and you drop dead on the spot has somehow been ingrained into peoples' minds. We need to step back and evaluate the situation (which is what the government is hopefully doing) and persuade the population that it is now safe to cautiously return to normality depending on your own specific circumstances. i.e,  vulnerable people (the over 60s, specially those with ill health issues) and people of any age who may be adversely affected by infections of this type. Perhaps then we can return to businesses opening, factories returning to work and the NHS going back to doing what is supposed to do which is treating the sick and disabled instead of concentrating on treating one disease and protecting itself. Who knows how many people are dead or dying from other health problems because they have been put on the back burner for the last 4 months?

[Stallard12]

Exactly right Asp, you and I have got to be very careful, but not obsessively so.  My esteemed rheumatologist told me that if I contracted the virus I wouldn't die because some existing drugs will prevent it, however it wouldn't be pleasant, but if I had diabetes or heart problems that may not be the case.  That's my point, there is a small percentage of the population who need protection, but that's not a good enough reason to destroy the future of a 22 yr old, or Man United !

The US is opening up more and more each day and cases are going down, Texas with its great Republican leadership is forging forward - my wife got her first hairdo at the beauty shop yesterday, she loved it, but as usual I got in trouble when I asked, " Were they still closed?"

With the stupid obsession with lockdown, millions of cancer patients are not being diagnosed and millions more are having to forgo their chemo treatments, but the know it all and the plain dumb don't think that deep.

You are correct, it is mostly hindsight, although I have always stressed the damage to the economy, which incidentally affects liberals as much as conservatives, but with hindsight why do the idiots still insist on treating this like the Bubpnic plague which killed on sight.

[Evil Sid]

So basically kill of the weak....🤨

[Observer II]

That's cull theory Sid, you can of course take an anti-malaria tablet with a swig of bleach to protect yourself !  😉💀

[Davy51]

If schooling over here is such a big issue we have holidays coming up of approximately 8 weeks. Lump Whit & summer holidays together & get the kids back say end of July to finish the current year's classwork then go straight into the next year's grade without the usual break in between . Give the kids & teacher plenty of time off to become covid free.

[Observer II]

Also gives time to observe the results in Europe,  apparently the French have had a flare up in their schools.     😷

[Confused52]

Obs, they sent a different set of pupils back which if I have understood correctly is quite a lot more risky that what is proposed here.

[Observer II]

Doesn't dismiss the idea of letting them go first and learning from their experience.      😷

[asperity]

A lot of teachers are in favour of staying at home on full pay and watching TV all day maintaining the lockdown until Michael Gove can absolutely and unequivocably guarantee that not one single teacher catches the virus. Meanwhile thousands of supermarket staff have hardly broken a stride to maintain their service to the population at large. Incidentally has anyone seen any reports of a spike in supermarket staff fatalities due to the virus?

[Evil Sid]

has anybody looked for such a thing?.......🧐

[Stallard12]

No Sid, just the opposite.  Have a target plan to protect everyone over sixty and let most others keep everything rolling.  Having physically fit 30 yr olds sat at home twiddling their thumbs is nonsense.  However, in a nanny state, that situation may be systems normal!

[Evil Sid]

How many politicians are over sixty or close to that not to mention the house of lords..🕵️‍♀️

[Observer II]

But they didn't have a plan, and if they did, they didn't stick to it;  and preparation was non existent, in terms of PPE and ventillators.   A pandemic is like a forest fire, it has to be immediately contained, isolated and controlled; which required draconian action as early as January when the word "epidemic" came out of China.  This should have meant an immediate and total lock down, and included a lock out of all entry to the UK, without quarantine.  Once under control and contained, testing, tracking and tracing could have come into play as low risk groups were released back into the social environment; with the high risk groups remaining shielded.   This wasn't the case, as there was no lock down,  air travel continued (and still continues); as they contemplated the idea of herd immunity;  which was suddenly dumped when the mortality rate started to skyrocket.  The objective then became suppressing the spike in order to stop medical services being swamped. So, overall a saga of too little, too late.     😷

[asperity]

Are you Kier Starmer's script writer Obs? He seems concentrate on asking questions of why something wasn't done 3 months ago (not really helpful) rather than asking what is being done in the future. As I keep saying we are where we are now, and crying over spilt milk isn't helpful.

[Observer II]

Some "spilt milk" -  over 30,000 dead.  and please don't equate me with Starmer, with those amateurs things would have been worse, if that's possible.    The reason we are never prepared for such events, is that we have no culture of preparedness or planning for emergencies, all politics are about today, never tomorrow.   There was a film, I think it was produced in 2012, "Contagion"; which ironically predicted such an event.  Unlike the threat of an asteroid hitting the Earth or even WW3,  pandemics are an ever present threat , especially in a world of global travel.  They had warnings with SARS and MERS, they even had an exercise in 2016, so spilt milk and lessons learnt just doesn't cut it.  btw it's not just the UK that was caught with it's pants down, almost all Governments were, with some notable exceptions like Greece and S/Korea.      😷

[asperity]

There's no point in blaming the government for the failures of the NHS and PHE, the bodies that are paid to prepare for medical emergencies. You can blame successive governments going right back to the inception of the NHS for not making sure that the NHS was doing its job properly, but of course that would be called "government interference" and whichever minister was nominally "in charge" would be castigated by the opposition and the MSM and accused of politicising the sacred body. Lose lose situation. Now would be the time to put proper measures in place but I dare say the NHS will be seen to be even more untouchable and even more money will be spent employing "diversity managers" and the like.

It is crying over spilt milk because, whatever mistakes have been made, those lives are never going to come back.

[Observer II]

Lives won't come back - but more are being added to the toll on a daily basis. See you still haven't grasped the reality of HMG;  it's ultimately responsible for the administration of our society and certainly the safety and wellbeing of it's citizens;  that's why we have Ministers of State to oversee these various aspects of Governance.    😷

[Davy51]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but with foresight  we would be unstoppable. Alas , we don't have a crystal ball.

It's like this Piers Morgan  grilling politicians to raise his own profile as a crusading journalist & interviewer , i would be more impressed to see him grilling the Chinese leader about why his country has infected the world & its economies.

[asperity]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

Lives won't come back - but more are being added to the toll on a daily basis. See you still haven't grasped the reality of HMG;  it's ultimately responsible for the administration of our society and certainly the safety and wellbeing of it's citizens;  that's why we have Ministers of State to oversee these various aspects of Governance.    😷

I already covered this Obs. For the entire lifetime of the NHS any attempt by any Minister to try to improve the governance and efficiency has been shouted down as unwarranted interference in the sainted NHS, or worse as an attempt to "sell it to the USA" as if the USA would be so stupid as to buy it. Ultimately the responsibility for the safety, health and well-being of NHS patients lies with the NHS, so in this case you should be asking the NHS why it allowed so many people to die. It does have previous form, for example the deaths on Andy Burnham's watch as Health Minister didn't slow his climb up the greasy pole.

[Observer II]

 No Asp: this is how it works - the people elect a Government, that Gov (theoretically) then pursue the policies contained in it's manifesto,  those policies then apply to all public institutions, including the NHS.  Now it may be the case, that civil servants and NHS Managers, don't do as they are told, but that again is a matter for the Government to get a grip. The primary responsibilty of any Government is to safeguard the wellbeing of it's citizens and a National Emergency is a primary example.      😷

[Confused52]

15 minutes ago, Observer II said:

 The primary responsibilty of any Government is to safeguard the wellbeing of it's citizens and a National Emergency is a primary example.      😷

Sorry Obs but that assertion is historically incorrect. The primary responsibility of the state is do those things that citizens cannot do for themselves. The usual first example is national security as in the defence of the realm. The second function is the maintenance of the Queen's Peace though the administration of justice. Those were the first two functions implemented in England; the implementation of everything else was a modern addition.

The idea that everything is or should be in the overall control of the state is the view of those who believe in communism. This country is not based on that view

[asperity]

25 minutes ago, Observer II said:

 No Asp: this is how it works - the people elect a Government, that Gov (theoretically) then pursue the policies contained in it's manifesto,  those policies then apply to all public institutions, including the NHS.  Now it may be the case, that civil servants and NHS Managers, don't do as they are told, but that again is a matter for the Government to get a grip. The primary responsibilty of any Government is to safeguard the wellbeing of it's citizens and a National Emergency is a primary example.      😷

What Con says, plus when we had nationalised industries the government ministers weren't held responsible for their failures.

[Observer II]

Not an idea Con, a fact - ultimately HMG carries responsibilty for all it's institutions  and policies - that why we have elected politicians, to carry out our majority wishes.simple democracy, and nothing to do with communism.  What you Tories seem to believe is closer to anarchy, perhaps you should join Piers Corbin !    😉     😷

[Stallard12]

Texas is practically totally open for business, most small businesses including restaurant, barbers, hairdressers, etc and clubs, pubs and bars will be open this Thursday (golf courses never closed).  They do have a plan Obs, you know the saying,a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, you should take note, all States have to have a stabalised plateau of infections for at least two weeks before they can start Plus several other criteria.  Businesses have to maintain the social distancing with partitioning and operate at 25%capacity etc.  

Went  to a doctors appointment today inHouston, 200 mile round trip and traffic was back to normal and Houston was bustling.  If a there is an increase in infections they have teams standing by to jump on them and thousands of empty hospital beds if needed, but the prediction is that with the new awareness everything will go well.

Ill give you a simple example:  everything in life has a risk attached, even crossing a street.   How many times have you sat in your car at a stop sign on a small road waiting to get out onto a busy highway.  After a while you realize that, even though there is risk involved to you and others, there comes a time when you have to make that quick dash for that small break in cars or sit and rot on the vine.  This is that time.  We believe tha t Texans are adult enough to be able to handle the risk, maybe some others are not