Jump to content

Seems to be working -


observer
 Share

Recommended Posts

A 14% drop in Tory and LibDum support, and Labour nowhere in Eastleigh - seems public opinion is starting to put it's votes where it's thoughts are.  So now, radical repositioning by the Tories and Labour on Europe and immigration - but both have reneged on past promises on a Euro referendum and membership of the EU stops any chance of restricting immigration from the EU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One problem for UKIP is when people start to realise what a right wing ,public service cutting, misogynist, homophobic party they are. The more the spotlight is shone on this nasty little party , and what its belief system is, leaving aside the xenophobia, the better. It was the same as when that other nasty little organisation, the BNP *, were shown up in the light of media attention.

 

 

 

* I am sure UKIP is a refuge for many from the BNP - I know that they ask if anyone joining has been a member of BNP (or the EDL) but unless Nick Griffin gives then access to his membership lists ( which is somewhat unlikely) how would they know?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obs, it's a protest vote nothing more, governing parties win little mid term parliament , it's just wishful thinking on your part. They are a centre right party, who come the election will take some votes off the Tories, and in so doing let the left back in.

 

Hail Nigel !!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well we've had the expected name calling and labelling etc from the luvvies; but the clear majority voted for either a covert or an overt anti-EU Party; which appears inline with public opinion generally.  The LibDums were only saved by an efficient local political infrastructure. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obs how many by elections have you seen, mid term, governments get punished, take your rose coloured glasses off and take it for what it is.

 

If you want to talk about majorities, a clear majority did not vote for the Tories, but thanks to a voting system you approve of, here we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well we've had the expected name calling and labelling etc from the luvvies; but the clear majority voted for either a covert or an overt anti-EU Party; which appears inline with public opinion generally.  The LibDums were only saved by an efficient local political infrastructure. :lol:

 

 

They were only saved by getting more votes than Nigel Fartrage's  party - how unfair is that :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

(They may have got an even higher vote if it hadn't been for the  wandering palms allegations against the Labour peer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The success of smaller Parties, is in their changing of the political agendas of the main Parties; they've knocked on doors and phoned etc, and received the clear message that the vast majority of folk are concerned about immigration and the EU. So they'll choke on their own luvvie dogmas and and modify their positions to pool some votes. The Tories are already doing it, now watch Labour start to modify their position on immigration - not to be trusted of course. As for the LibDums, they had a well practised political infrastructure on the ground (as the others have elsewhere), which will clinically turn out their voters, while leaving the rest asleep; which is why none of the main Parties worry about turn outs anymore, as long as they get the majority of those who actually vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It worked for the Tories then Obs.

 

You carry on livening in your own deluded little World. Have you seen the poll today, it says 8 out of 10 that voted for UKIP would have voted Tory in the general election, I know it's not what you want to hear, so that is why you probably ignored it. The truth is the Libs won it, even with a concerted campaign by all the Tory papers, to up the Liberals recent problems. The Mail had a headline every day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think it's you believing in spurious polls that may make you feel better.  Think perhaps the bigger shock will come at the next Euro Elections. The Press rubbish about "hands on knees" etc made absolutely no difference to the majority of voters; who were more concerned with immigration & the EU, hence the result in a "safe" LibDum Town..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever your opinion is of UKIP, the fact that they got such a large share of the vote is a signal to the other 3 parties that their shared stance on EU membership (and no, I do not for one second believe any of Call Me Dave's faux Euroscepticism) is not shared by the electorate. I don't believe that UKIP is the party to lead us out of the nightmare that is EU membership, but all of the other parties are committed to our continued membership. As for Nick Tessla's description of UKIP, well I get the impression that sometime in the recent past he's had a nasty dream involving Farage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally think a referendum would reignite people with politics.... I'm sure many many people don't bother to vote because they see there is no point. The EU controls almost all aspects of oour law and lives now so voting Libs, lab or cons does nothing.

 

Have the referendum, get the result to get out and move on from there....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kevo, despite what they say in public, that's exactly how the main partie's like it - a low turnout generally, but "get the vote out" from their own data of supporters - such is the clinical & cynical nature of modern politics, which allows public opinion to be discounted in favour of elitist Party dogmas. It's only when their own supporters start switching to the likes of UKIP, that they start to panic, and start to invent a new narrative. In this case on immigration, which is now out of the closet and firmly on the table.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In truth any party can come up with whatever pre election manifesto it wants just to hoodwink the voters. In office it can do whatever it wants , confident that it will be in power for at least 4 or 5 years. As for Labour ,even if they were to get back in No 10 tomorrow, i doubt they would change anything the Tories have done because the country's finances are in such a mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head Kije;  by moving "to the middle" in search of "floating" votes, they abandon their base support and any party principles; which leaves us with three "main" Parties that are fundementally indistinguishable from each other - so no  wonder that apathy reigns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Elections have always been won in the middle, move away you loose, look at Labour under foot, or the Tories last time they lost power, when the euro sceptics in the party ran it.

 

I think I was a lone voice on here in wanting another voting system, well you have to live with what you voted for. If the Tories react to UKIP, and move the right, they loose the middle ground and any chance of being elected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tories need to move more to the right in my opinion. We need to abandon this nonsense of giving money away to foreign countries while having to make savings at home. We need to stop giving benefits to migrant workers. If they can't survive on what they earn here; tough. Bugger off homne and work there. We need to get out of Europe and stop this madness of uncontrolled immigration and the next explosion that is due in January from Bulgaria.... being soft and trying to be the nicey nicey party has cost the Tories and the country.

New Liebour sold the country down the pan and opened the flood gates to mass immigration to boost the popular Liebour vote.... Time to be tough. Any foreign national over here with no job and no independant means of support should be shown the door. Any foreign Nattional in a UK prison should be kicked out immediately their sentence finishes along with any dependants (which means they are on benefits)

 

Other than that.... I have nothing to say on the matter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Baz, you might find the Labour party sponsor your membership for the Tory party, because you would make them unelectable. You should learn from history no party wins when they move from the middle, it comes with the election system you wanted and advocated. UKIP would have seats under PR. but you were blind, well you get what you vote for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't patronise me Kije..... we have got what you traitorous Euro lovers want.... a country devoid of character and over flowing with foreigners sponging off the British worker and we have been conned into believeing that it is good for our country.... utter nonsense. This country was at its greatest when it was alone in the world and trading with everyone and leading the world in innovation and science.... we have been paralysed by the Liberal luvvies and will continue to be so until we vote to get out of the Euro nightmare

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being patronising Baz, If we had PR, There would be a UKIP Mp, you voted against PR. Parties that move away from the centre become unelectable, If the Tory party move to the right they will loose a lot of voters and gain a few they have lost to UKIP. Any party that moves away from the centre becomes unelectable, that is why all the main parties fight over it, hold the centre, hold power. 

 

 

 

This country was at its greatest when it was alone in the world and trading with everyone and leading the world in innovation and science.... we have been paralysed by the Liberal luvvies and will continue to be so until we vote to get out of the Euro nightmare

 

As to that

 

We were not alone Baz, we had an Empire, which we exploited and forced them to buy British goods when ever possible. Thats where our wealth came from. So are you advocating a new Empire where we force our subjects to buy British to make us great again. Why do you think America was against our Empire, they could not trade into it properly. You have a very idealised view on Great Britain Baz. Wake up.

 

 America has a version of our Empire now, oil is sold in Dollars, If you don't have dollars you have to buy or trade for some, Which means buying American goods or services before you buy oil, they have been making a killing out of it for years. Iraq stopped selling oil in Dollars, shortly afterward was invaded. The very first thing the Americans did after the invasion was to change it back to dollars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've again hit on a fundemental Kije - you use the term "unelectable", oft used by a class of political careerists for whom getting elected is all. The question is however, elected to do what?  Admittedly, both are a mutual requirement; but where there is no conviction, the process would appear futile. Probably imo, the best Government we've ever had was the Atlee Gov; elected in 1945 on a socialist manifesto. Perhaps their programme was so radical for it's time, because they never thought they'd win an election against the war leading record of Churchill. But perhaps the social homogenisation of the classes through war service, served to alter the usual self serving nature of the class system, and folk actually believed a land fit for heros was possible. So given that they didn't really count on being "elected", they maintained their radical agenda; which gave rise to at least one lasting legacy - the NHS. Unless there is a political narrative that the majority of folk can believe in, and an intent to actually carry it through, I'm afraid we'll continue to flounder as a Nation, with all the ills that Baz has alluded to. The latest example is the developing squabble in the Coalition between Defence cuts OR Benefits cuts; this at a time when we're shelling out £billions on overseas aid and net contributions to the EU. You may call it a protest vote, but when the status quo is viewed by a growing number of folk as a waste of time, and they begin to look for an alternative and actually start to vote for it; perhaps change will occur.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obs, you forget it is people who elect governments, they like the the middle, might be because a government that represents the middle can't do so much damage, similar to the Americans having a democratic President but a Republican house, neither has real control, A natural buffer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...