observer Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 On the same day that a new memorial park was opened to honour the dead returning from Afghanistan, and the PM waxed lyrically about "how gratefull" we are for their sacrifice: thousands of servicemen were given their marching orders in the form of redundancy notices. If they really want to save money, perhaps they'd stay out of foreign adventures in the first place and save a few brothers, sons and fathers from getting killed - and for what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Ah. but we would be a second class nation if we stayed out of all these wars. Just being mischievous again. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wireboy Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Disappointing isn't it? One of the perks of joining the Armed Forces was job security. Not any more. I just hope the men and women who did get made redundant today make an easy phase into "Civilian life." It isn't easy at the best of times but even harder in today’s world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Think Harry put his finger on it, we're a second class nation, trying to take on the commitments of a first class nation, with the resources of a third class nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Think Harry put his finger on it, we're a second class nation, trying to take on the commitments of a first class nation, with the resources of a third class nation. I didn't think that we were that good at any of those levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 If this country of ours had no military capability then I reckon you’d have probably been thrown in jail long ago because this second class nation as you call it, would probably by now be under the control of some other country with very different policies. The way I see it is that these days we live in a society where countries once thought of as being remote and alien to us are now effectively our neighbours and we’re pretty much 100% reliant on some of these counties for our way of life. I don’t think anyone could begin to comprehend the potential effects of doing nothing when something kicks off overseas that indirectly threatens us. It’s all too easy to say it’s only about oil and big business and that’s all the politicians care about but without intervention, we’d probably all now be sitting here starving and cursing the day that Sadam Hussein was allowed to ride rough shod over the middle east. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Saddam Hussein was OUR client Dictator in Iraq, supplied by Western arms companies (incl chemical weapons) in return for cheap oil; and providing a secular counter balance to the Iranian Theocracy - unfortunately for Saddam, he neglected to observe due deference to Washington. Likewise, Gaddaffi was supplied with arms by us and his prisons used by the US, for the torture of Muslim radicals. He also performed a usefull function as gate keeper to Europe, keeping out African migrants. So let's not look for any "morality" in all this, it's a cess pit of international politics and as long as OUR interests are served, there's simply no need to risk our squaddies in these costly adventures. The MOD stands for the Ministry of DEFENCE (not offence), and perhaps money could be better spent, actually defending OUR shores against the current migrant invasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 That’s a load of old cobblers Observer as well you know. It really doesn’t matter who supplied arms to who in the past, it’s now that counts. The man on the street isn’t concerned about the past morality of politicians, he just wants to know that next week there’ll be no fuel crises and that there’ll be food an the table. If everyone took the attitude that if it’s not in our country then it’s not our problem, then I reckon we’d all be in one heck of a mess right now. Let me ask you this, when the Gadaffi supporter’s turned the anti aircraft guns on the protestors, did you share the same sense of outrage and anger felt by others or did your hatred of Johnny Foreigner kick in making it just a few less potential immigrants? You always imply that Britain is a war mongering country with uncaring politicians constantly spoiling for a fight but I put it to you that you could not do any better. And if I didn’t know who you were, I’d swear that with some of the stuff you come out with, you’re not even British! Thank God that you’re not in charge of any of our decision making. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 You mean the same outrage we felt for the folk in Syria, Bahrain, Yemen et al? btw. There was an anti-Gadaffi street protest on the news - Tripoli? No - Manchester! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Er, didn't Blair take us into 6 wars? Didn't he cosy up up to Gaddafi? Didn't he con the country into going into Iraq? AND we are NOT a warmongering country? the politicians are still living in the past. They forget how they have emasculated the nation and dragged us down that far that we have no respect any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 The man on the street isn’t concerned about the past morality of politicians, Eh .... don't think so Our history is steeped in the blood of colonialism, rooted in slavery, brutality, torture, and oppression and I'm not sure many can forget or ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 MOD does stand for Ministy of Defence, and we have to defend where we buy are oil,and make sure it still comes in our direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 On that basis, perhaps we should re-colonise the third world and increase the armed forces to do it?! We secure our imports of oil etc by doing deals with anyone who can provide stable government, even supplying them arms to do it, which todate happens to have been Dictators - and frankly, "the man in the street", couldn't care less, as long as the petrol at the pumps remains available. If we reduced our reliance on imports, we may not find ourselves at the mercy of events abroad. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Stable Government, being the key Obs, lots of oil producing Countries seem to lack them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 On that basis, perhaps we should re-colonise the third world and increase the armed forces to do it?! We secure our imports of oil etc by doing deals with anyone who can provide stable government, even supplying them arms to do it, which todate happens to have been Dictators - and frankly, "the man in the street", couldn't care less, as long as the petrol at the pumps remains available. If we reduced our reliance on imports, we may not find ourselves at the mercy of events abroad. :shock: Not many oil wells in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Hence the need (aside from the drive for clean energy) to reduce our dependency on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Back to subject, so your wrong then Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 About WHAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Same as ever Obs, Everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Same as ever Kije - non specific! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Our armed services, protect us from terrorists and keep oil flowing in to the Uk, A service at the present time we need, without oil the UK would seece to be. Our foreign adventures will have to continue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Our "armed forces" didn't "protect us" from the (home grown) London bombing - as they were busy chasing the Taliban. And Afghanistan is proof, that we (the UK) simply don't have the capacity to project power across the world anymore; we depended on US technologies, bullets and missiles for the Libyan adventure; and even the Yanks are now realising their limitations. So - time for a rethink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Perhaps its time to tell the money men to go away and use alternative fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Rethink what Obs, we need oil simple, we have to protect our supply, If it was about freeing people from oppressors, We would gone in Zimbabwe and countless other Countries. Are you prepared to go without your car, or not heat your house when it is cold. Without energy our industry would grind to a holt. Defence is not perfect, the enemy will always find a way through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 "Protect oil supplies"? We can't even "protect" our tankers off the coast of Somalia. As for "projecting power", our means of doing so (Carriers), have just been scrapped and we now have to rely on the Frogs for a lift. As for "stability" in these regions, we've just thrown away our support for all the petty dictators that suppressed their peoples and kept a lid on things, so now we've opened a pandorras box of "freedom"; and the first signs of what "freedom" means can now be seen in Egypt. As I've said before, we're entering a phase of global volatility, where resources are under threat, be it oil, water, copper etc; we havn't the capacity for intervention, therefore we must look to our own territory and ingenuity for solutions. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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