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On the same day that a new memorial park was opened to honour the dead returning from Afghanistan, and the PM waxed lyrically about "how gratefull" we are for their sacrifice: thousands of servicemen were given their marching orders in the form of redundancy notices. If they really want to save money, perhaps they'd stay out of foreign adventures in the first place and save a few brothers, sons and fathers from getting killed - and for what? :(

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If this country of ours had no military capability then I reckon you’d have probably been thrown in jail long ago because this second class nation as you call it, would probably by now be under the control of some other country with very different policies.

 

The way I see it is that these days we live in a society where countries once thought of as being remote and alien to us are now effectively our neighbours and we’re pretty much 100% reliant on some of these counties for our way of life. I don’t think anyone could begin to comprehend the potential effects of doing nothing when something kicks off overseas that indirectly threatens us.

 

It’s all too easy to say it’s only about oil and big business and that’s all the politicians care about but without intervention, we’d probably all now be sitting here starving and cursing the day that Sadam Hussein was allowed to ride rough shod over the middle east.

 

Bill :)

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Saddam Hussein was OUR client Dictator in Iraq, supplied by Western arms companies (incl chemical weapons) in return for cheap oil; and providing a secular counter balance to the Iranian Theocracy - unfortunately for Saddam, he neglected to observe due deference to Washington. Likewise, Gaddaffi was supplied with arms by us and his prisons used by the US, for the torture of Muslim radicals. He also performed a usefull function as gate keeper to Europe, keeping out African migrants. So let's not look for any "morality" in all this, it's a cess pit of international politics and as long as OUR interests are served, there's simply no need to risk our squaddies in these costly adventures. The MOD stands for the Ministry of DEFENCE (not offence), and perhaps money could be better spent, actually defending OUR shores against the current migrant invasions. :angry:

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That’s a load of old cobblers Observer as well you know.

 

It really doesn’t matter who supplied arms to who in the past, it’s now that counts. The man on the street isn’t concerned about the past morality of politicians, he just wants to know that next week there’ll be no fuel crises and that there’ll be food an the table. If everyone took the attitude that if it’s not in our country then it’s not our problem, then I reckon we’d all be in one heck of a mess right now.

 

Let me ask you this, when the Gadaffi supporter’s turned the anti aircraft guns on the protestors, did you share the same sense of outrage and anger felt by others or did your hatred of Johnny Foreigner kick in making it just a few less potential immigrants?

 

You always imply that Britain is a war mongering country with uncaring politicians constantly spoiling for a fight but I put it to you that you could not do any better. And if I didn’t know who you were, I’d swear that with some of the stuff you come out with, you’re not even British!

 

Thank God that you’re not in charge of any of our decision making.

 

Bill :)

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Er, didn't Blair take us into 6 wars? Didn't he cosy up up to Gaddafi? Didn't he con the country into going into Iraq? AND we are NOT a warmongering country? the politicians are still living in the past. They forget how they have emasculated the nation and dragged us down that far that we have no respect any more. :roll:

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On that basis, perhaps we should re-colonise the third world and increase the armed forces to do it?! :roll: We secure our imports of oil etc by doing deals with anyone who can provide stable government, even supplying them arms to do it, which todate happens to have been Dictators - and frankly, "the man in the street", couldn't care less, as long as the petrol at the pumps remains available. If we reduced our reliance on imports, we may not find ourselves at the mercy of events abroad. :shock: :shock:

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On that basis, perhaps we should re-colonise the third world and increase the armed forces to do it?! :roll: We secure our imports of oil etc by doing deals with anyone who can provide stable government, even supplying them arms to do it, which todate happens to have been Dictators - and frankly, "the man in the street", couldn't care less, as long as the petrol at the pumps remains available. If we reduced our reliance on imports, we may not find ourselves at the mercy of events abroad. :shock: :shock:

 

 

Not many oil wells in England. :wink:

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Our "armed forces" didn't "protect us" from the (home grown) London bombing - as they were busy chasing the Taliban. And Afghanistan is proof, that we (the UK) simply don't have the capacity to project power across the world anymore; we depended on US technologies, bullets and missiles for the Libyan adventure; and even the Yanks are now realising their limitations. So - time for a rethink. :roll:

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Rethink what Obs, we need oil simple, we have to protect our supply, If it was about freeing people from oppressors, We would gone in Zimbabwe and countless other Countries. Are you prepared to go without your car, or not heat your house when it is cold. Without energy our industry would grind to a holt. Defence is not perfect, the enemy will always find a way through.

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"Protect oil supplies"? We can't even "protect" our tankers off the coast of Somalia. As for "projecting power", our means of doing so (Carriers), have just been scrapped and we now have to rely on the Frogs for a lift. As for "stability" in these regions, we've just thrown away our support for all the petty dictators that suppressed their peoples and kept a lid on things, so now we've opened a pandorras box of "freedom"; and the first signs of what "freedom" means can now be seen in Egypt. As I've said before, we're entering a phase of global volatility, where resources are under threat, be it oil, water, copper etc; we havn't the capacity for intervention, therefore we must look to our own territory and ingenuity for solutions. :shock: :shock:

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