RIP who?

[Bazj]

Adam....

 

why would PJ come to you for a job?

[P J]

Perhaps I'd like to tug my forelock to a real proper toff every mornin on me way into the mill.

[P J]

But even the Scottish managers can't understand each other..

I am with Adam on this one. You want the best for the job, unless driving a white van.

I too would like the best for the job, including white van driving but I don't see how the way a person pronounces the word "computer" can possibly have any bearing on his ability to be good at his job. Much better to assertain how well he can use the computer not just how he says the word tbh.

[Dizzy]

Surely that depends on whether they ever have to phone/speak to your propsective customers first though

 

Would you be happy with ..... 'Iya mayte jus wundered if you still one-ned the job dooin cos wees dead busy but cud slot yer in if yers wonts and eyes'll be the one wots gunna be doing yers new wiyoz and compuers .... no probs if yer doesnt just giz the boss a bell and eel sort it straight up and I'll be on me ways ... sorted

 

Ey up maybe you would give me a job PJ...

[Bazj]

Perhaps I'd like to tug my forelock to a real proper toff every mornin on me way into the mill.

 

shouldn't that be "on me way in t'mill"

[Peter T]

So in conclusion, we are now saying that call centres in foreign climes are a "good" thing and we need more like them.

Can't agree as I don't want to have a translator every time I call them and can't understand a word they are saying.

[P J]

Surely that depends on whether they ever have to phone/speak to your propsective customers first though

 

Would you be happy with ..... 'Iya mayte jus wundered if you still one-ned the job dooin cos wees dead busy but cud slot yer in if yers wonts and eyes'll be the one wots gunna be doing yers new wiyoz and compuers .... no probs if yer doesnt just giz the boss a bell and eel sort it straight up and I'll be on me ways ... sorted

 

Ey up maybe you would give me a job PJ...

 

" so ,pray tell, would madame be reqiring fries with that? what, what"

[Adam]

Seldom in the history of the forum can a topic have wandered so far. How did we get onto this in a topic about the death of two obscure (to me at any rate) musicians?

 

Baz. I doubt if PJ would apply for a job with me once he saw the job specification. He appears to be strongly prejudiced against educated people, and the only reason for such a prejudice can surely only be envy.

 

As for your good self, you appear to think the way to bring down the unemployment figures is to make everyone a manager of a Scottish football team.

 

You are quite right in suggesting that you don't have to be able to speak correctly to do certain jobs. But in gaining employment, perception counts for a great deal and I suggest that there can't too many interview panels, or individual employers for that matter, who would not be influenced by an applicant who speaks well. This might occasionally result in the wrong person getting the job, but from the standpoint of the successful applicant, he's laughing all the way to the bank. So I repeat: it pays to be able to speak our own language properly if you are seeking employment.

[P J]

Adam, the reason I would not apply for a job with you has nothing to do with envy and everything to do with having my own successful business which I have managed for the last 15 years or so. During this time I have been fortunate enough to have dealt with, and also employed, a great many people from all walks of life. What I have learned is that it is very foolish to prejudge a person based on my own petty bias and much better to try to form my opinion based on what is pertinent. It doesn't matter to me if a person has a Scottish accent or an Old Etonian twang, if they can't do the job they are no good and vica versa.

I think you may possibly have a slight inferiority complex and in your desire to cover this up you take on the mantle of the snob and dismiss as peurile anything which, to you, is not high brow enough. I pity you really to be honest, as you come across as the forums very own Hyacinth Bucket but no doubt you would pronounce it "bouquet"

The next time you are reruiting Adam I have found you the perfect applicant,

 

 

with my compliments.

[disgusted]

Baz. I doubt if PJ would apply for a job with me once he saw the job specification. He appears to be strongly prejudiced against educated people, and the only reason for such a prejudice can surely only be envy.

Yes, yes indeed, that could be the only explanation Perhaps it's more that you come across as incredibly condescending and pretentious?

 

 

As for your good self, you appear to think the way to bring down the unemployment figures is to make everyone a manager of a Scottish football team.

For someone who seems to pride himself on utter correctness, your powers of literary interpretation leave a lot to be desired. Baz referred to two Scottish people who manage very successful clubs - ie Dalglish and Ferguson - not two managers of Scottish clubs.

[disgusted]

and there are lots of Scottish people on TV too and a couple who manage very succesful football clubs and they can't string two coherrent words of English together:grin:

You'll nearly always find that Scots in the media have exemplary pronounciation, Gordon Hunter, Jackie Bird, Fiona Bruce, Jim White, Isla Traquair or Kirsty Wark for eg.

[Adam]

PJ

Apart from the personal attacks on me, you might be surprised to know that I don't disagree with much else you said in your last post. You have a successful business - Great! So have I! You don't allow your prejudices to influence you when recruiting. Great! Neither do I.

If your posts had all been on these lines we would not have been in dispute. But they weren't. You implied that you were prejudiced against people on like Mozart, Old Etonians and 1940s BBC announcers. All people who likely to be well educated and well spoken.

The main thrust of my argument, on the other hand, was to say that being able to speak properly is an advantage at a job inteview. That is not prejudice - it's a statement of fact.

OK, I did earlier complain about people who pronounce the words like computer and better as if there was no "t" in them. I certainly did not criticise Scots, I merely pointed out that a lot of them also omit the "t" from some words. In fact, this is a feature of the Scottish dialect, although I suspect the list of Scots broadcasters don't in fact make this error.

I stressed that I have nothing against regional accents, many of which are marvelous to listen to.

 

I agree with you when you say that being able to do the job is the important thing, rather than the way someone speaks. But if they don't speak correctly, how am I to judge them at an interview?

It so happens that in my business it is crucial that people speak well and are extremely articulate. Perhaps I would not feel so strongly about it if that were not the case.

 

But then perhaps I am just a snob - although I don't think any of my friends consider me so.

I note this topic has brought out our usual collection of characters who are so ready to champion low standards in all things. But I didn't think you were one of them.

[P J]

Adam, as good as it is to see your grovelling response I can't let it go unheeded.

 

From what I can make out it was you who began the insulting language with words such as "ignorant" etc. describing folk with the audacity and of sufficient low bearing to have different musical taste to your own. I took exception as I like all sorts of music including some modern popular stuff.

 

You claim not to allow your prejudices to influence your choice of employee yet you harp on about peoples poor pronunciation being the reason they haven't a job, at best duplicitous or worse just lies.

 

How do you come to the conclusion that I was prejudiced against Mozart, Old Etonians and 1940's BBC announcers? Laughable.

 

You have nothing against regional accents ? Then why bring them up?

 

What industry demands impeccable pronunciation? You're not the speaking clock are you?

 

You say your friends wouldn't find you to be a snob, if you chose them there's more than a slight probability that they are too.

 

I too found something in your post that I agree with, " But then perhaps I am just a snob".

 

Truth at last

[Adam]

PJ

 

I certainly wasn't grovelling - I was just giving you credit where I thought it was deserved. However I now see I was wrong. You ARE one of the triumvirate of inverted snobs who always come out of the woodwork when anyone on this forum starts calling for higher standards! Or are you, Baz and Fatshaft all the same person?

 

OK, I was the one who introduced regional accents into the debate, but if you look back you will see that I said they were often beautiful. So I wasn't prejudiced against them.

 

What I think I (and anyone else!) is quite entitled to be prejudiced against is sloppy use of our language. It is not a matter of snobbery.

 

What occupations require good speech? Well, all the professions for a start. Would you trust a doctor or a lawyer who couldn't speak properly?

 

The point I have been trying to make is that being able to speak properly is an advantage at a job interview. If you can't accept that as a fact then you are so bigoted in your misguided defence of low standards that you are beyond hope.

 

As far as my description of people being musically ignorant - well most people are. It's not a matter of whether you like the music or not. I like some stuff that is rubbish myself. There are all sorts of reasons for liking a piece of music, many of them nothing to do with the musicality of the piece.

 

Oh, and by the way, please don't describe today's pop music as "modern" because by doing so you show yourself to be musically ignorant. Stravinski wrote music that was more modern than most stuff being written today - and he has been dead for more than 40 years! Miles Davis was more modern than most stuff being played today and he has been dead for more than 20 years.

[wolfie]

and there are lots of Scottish people on TV too and a couple who manage very succesful football clubs and they can't string two coherrent words of English together:grin:

 

That would be Sir Alex and Ally McCoist then Baz.

[Peter T]

Thought it was Dalglish and not Fergie who couldn't be understood?

 

Doesn't modern mean "of present or recent times, up-to-date"?? Not 40 years ago or more.

[Dizzy]

Yep and modern has always been 'modern' at one time or another over the years, decades, centuries etc

[Peter T]

Yep and modern has always been 'modern' at one time or another over the years, decades, centuries etc

 

 

And you can only compare like with like.

[Adam]

The word "modern" usually has a slightly different meaning in musical terms. Because music - serious music, that is - has developed over the years, the word is used to described music which takes the art forward, or develops it. The music of Stravinski would probably not have been consider music at all in Bach's time, because it would have been too dischordant. Popular music usually advances at a much slower speed and often regresses. Rock music, in particular, took popular music on a huge backward step. Therefore is it not "modern." You can call in "contemporary" if you like, or even "currently popular" but in its structure it is quite old, in fact, you might say primitive.

Incidentally, this is not my personal opinion but what I have read about the development of music over the years.

It is true, of course, that contemporary popular music makes use of modern, electronic instruments. But it is the structure of the music that determines its modernity, not the instruments on which it is played.