observer Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 From news reports, the two brothers allegedly involved in the conspiracy to assasinate the PM have been charged: but charged with what? Well, it appears thay had possession of camoflaged clothing - errm, I've seen folk wearing cam loads of times. Charged with reading or possession of material apertaining to terrorism - errm, if the material was freely and legally available in books or on the net, what's the problem? The more we hear about these so-called terrorists, the more it sounds like a Biggles schoolboy fantasy, designed to make the Authorities look the part, and maintain a permanent state of fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 If saying you want the PM dead means you are a terrorist then half the country will be locked up soon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 If saying you want the PM dead means you are a terrorist then half the country will be locked up soon!! Mmmm!! don't think so voted out - yes, dead ............... nah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 It might help if this clueless Government banned ALL "faith" schools that perpetuate these causative beliefs, and promoted secular education to promote social cohesion and dispel the myths that are radicalising these misguided wannabe terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Observer Your post is reminiscent of one that recently appeared on another forum following a police raid on a known local drug dealer. The raid, despite good intelligence and having being been extremely well planned, didn?t reveal any huge quantity of drugs but did expose all the paraphernalia of a dealer together with an assortment of knives and other weapons. The comments at that time also hinted at police incompetence, that the drugs were only everyday social ones and the knives could be found in most kitchens. My point is that it?s all too easy to rubbish attempts at proactive policing when no ticking bomb or smoking gun is actually recovered but without such measures, every person in this nation would be exposed to a far greater threat from people intent at destroying our way of life. For an educated person your comments are completely ****ed up! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 No Bill; it's just that I refuse to be carried away on a tide of hysteria, sustained by both the Gov and Police as part of their control agenda. Whilst not decrying the requirement for survellance and vigilance; the fact is we are dealing with radicalised amateurs in comparison to the IRA, and we suffered the IRA for over 30 years, without falling into a state of panick. The real issue is why are these young men becoming "radicalised"; 1) because their religion provides a fertile base for extreme ideas to bloom; and by fostering seperate development in the name of ethnic and religious "diversity", we merely encourage these developments. 2) Yes, there are real issues concerning Gov Foreign Policy that feed the sense of injustice that fertilises radicalisation. Now to use the immortal New Labour slogan: we must remove crime AND the CAUSES of crime; which requires this Government to start eliminating those causations rather than exacerbating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Bill, your reply was sensible. Observer's liberal idea of the government has guns, therefore shouldn't their opponents have guns - stinks. It would stink on ice. It give liberalism a bad name. It's counter productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Jezz, quite wide of the mark trying to call me "a liberal"; rationalist maybe. It's the beard and sandal, toga wearing, PC, let's recognise diversity Brigade, that have got us into a state of social schitzophrenia in the first place. So I guess you'll have to have a go at another label, as assigning labels is a convenient way of avoiding debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Ouch. Touche! Skewered for resorting to labels. Abject prostrate apology proffered here. I just refuse to argue the merits of good vs. evil, right vs. wrong, intelligence vs. idiocy. What you need to find locally is a Good Argument Clinic -- where you pay five pounds for a fifteen minute go at silly statements and gainsay rebuttals. Get it out of your system. I was on my school's debate team. Didn't do well because I get emotional rather than cold blooded. However for fifty years I've believed the current presidential election system here was correct -- that direct popular vote was never the way to go. Naturally I've discovered I was wrong. The two parties are playing games for electoral college votes, giving extra power to the southern states that never wanted union in the first place. So I can see I was wrong. But it takes evidence with my own eyes to change my mindset, not argument persuasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 I agree with Obs, I have on this very site commented on how much better the world would be without bush or blair, brown has yet to feel my wrath. as for the famous five style investigation, from what I hear I completely agree with that, I don't know the details of what the police have on these guys, but what is being reported is beyond rediculous. eg. They posted on a website thier (plans is too strong a word but its the best I can think of) "Plans" to kill Brown... HELLO !!! hardly a covert operation is it, surely anyone with serious intentions of this action would be a little more discreet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Not satisfied with trying to create a state of hysteria with the terrorist threat; these clowns are now trying to resurect the cold war! The Georgia incident, no doubt engineered by a Republican US Administration for electoral reasons, has got the imature Milliband wandering round Europe talking about war with Russia - errm, what with, the UK's military are being bled to death in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we now depend on Russia for Gas and Oil etc. Is it too much to ask for wisdom in our politicians?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzodog Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Obs wrote - The Georgia incident, no doubt engineered by a Republican US Administration for electoral reasons, Jeez Obs, do you ever think about some of the trash you write? Some men wish they were premier footballers, others rock stars but I get the impression that you're the sort of socialist who secretly longs for the mass unemployment & genuine poverty of the 1930's so you can go on hunger marches & fly the Red Flag at it's helm. I guess you won't be satisfied until UK is part of a re-constructed USSR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Obs a Socialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzodog Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Obs a Socialist "Re-Nationalise the Energy Companies; subsidise the energy price; and provide free home insulation programmes to reduce consumption - sorted" "Nationalisation can be "arms length" or merely majority share control; the point being that WE retain control over those elements of essential to our economic wellbeing. We have the current spectacle of a multiplicity of utility companies, some foreign owned or at risk of foreign ownership, holding customers to ransom with price hikes" "It might help if this clueless Government banned ALL "faith" schools that perpetuate these causative beliefs, and promoted secular education to promote social cohesion " "We've bin here before; but it might help, IF the Government attacked the source of the problem, the super-markets and packaging industry" "Let's not forget, that it was Plod that shot " Well, what else would you call an anti-western democracy, anti-Tory, Anti-police, anti-faith schools, anti-western involvment in overseas military action (it would seem whatever the moral arguement), pro-lets nationalise everything as private companies are merely leeching off the working man .. person .... I suppose you could say communist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Obs a Socialist Well, what else would you call an anti-western democracy, anti-Tory, Anti-police, anti-faith schools, anti-western involvment in overseas military action (it would seem whatever the moral arguement), pro-lets nationalise everything as private companies are merely leeching off the working man .. person .... I suppose you could say communist! Having views like that would encourage anyone to be a socialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Quote:Well, what else would you call an anti-western democracy, anti-Tory, Anti-police, anti-faith schools, anti-western involvment in overseas military action (it would seem whatever the moral arguement), pro-lets nationalise everything as private companies are merely leeching off the working man .. person .... I suppose you could say communist! Ever stop to think that he might be right and that a lot agree with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 None so blind as those who don't wish to see; and in the land of the blind, the one eye'd man is King! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzodog Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Ever stop to think that he might be right? Most definitely! The difference is that I DO question the various approaches towards types of govts & their policies. The impression I get with dyed in the wool socialists is that they cling to the beliefs relevent to the first 40 years of the last century, irespective of their merits. So Obs last quote "None so blind as those who don't wish to see; and in the land of the blind, the one eye'd man is King" is rather apt, don't you think? You see, in order to be a Class Warrior you need something to fight against; that's why when absolute poverty was largly eradicated from the UK (& much credit should go the Socialist movements for this) in the 1950's the Socialist movement changed the goalposts & decided to focus on reletive poverty. Nothing wrong with that but to constantly attack private industry who generate most of the wealth in the country - which we ALL enjoy - is idiotic. You this is the perverted logic of the Socialist movement: attack private companies for profiteering then crank up the taxes and legistlation till they choose to close down or move abroad; then blame them for asset stripping or moving the capital & jobs away. You get to be a Class Warrior on both counts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Ever stop to think that he might be right? You see, in order to be a Class Warrior you need something to fight against; that's why when absolute poverty was largly eradicated from the UK (& much credit should go the Socialist movements for this) in the 1950's the Socialist movement changed the goalposts & decided to focus on reletive poverty. Nothing wrong with that but to constantly attack private industry who generate most of the wealth in the country - which we ALL enjoy - is idiotic. You this is the perverted logic of the Socialist movement: attack private companies for profiteering then crank up the taxes and legistlation till they choose to close down or move abroad; then blame them for asset stripping or moving the capital & jobs away. You get to be a Class Warrior on both counts! Fair comment. But when these industries that used to be in the control of the Government, start screwing the populace through their own greed and lack of foresight (no investment in storage capacity/upgrading water pipes etc.) the criticism is justified (IMO). and when education, hospitals, police et al get continually messed about for changes sake or box ticking, it is another reason for criticism. A lot of the old systems served us well for decades, so they needed tweaking not wholesale changes for the modern generations. It is not about political bias but more about common sense. As for private industry, nowt wrong with making a modest profit, but greed is wrong. By the way, don't forget that not everyone is well off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Well at least your attempting to engage Bonzo; rather than just trying to post others into convenient steriotypical pigeon holes, in order to maintain your orientation in life. Private V Public eh? Well, if you've taken the trouble to read my posts on this as well as other issues, you'd discover that I don't dismiss "private enterprise", it's clearly the power house of the econonomy, but like a nuclear reactor it needs to be harnessed in the interest of the Nation and ALL it's people, thus subjected to regulation in order to counter extremes - even Tory Govs recognise this. Now there are certain services and industries that are patently "essential" to the economic and social wellbeing of the Nation, in order to allow said Nation to function cohesively and independently of economic extortion by other Nations or multi-national companies. A classic example being - Energy: now you can't claim that the current debacle of several energy companies, all accessing the same product, pumped through the same pipes to our homes, all in the name of "competition" is working to keep prices down, can you? Niether can this current mess defend us against blackmail by Russian monopoly control of gas supply. So it's fairly logical to assume that we need self sufficiency and control of our own energy supplies. It is also fairly logical to presume, that in the interests of British consumers, who depend on energy supply to sustain their existence, that it is maintained at secure and affordable level. Unfortunately, the market, devoted as it is solely to profit without reference to "National Interest", or foreign owned companies who are by definition even less patriotic about this Country; are not the the best champions for OUR National Interest, hence the relevence of Nationalisation in a form that ensures policy control. So it's nothing to do with "class"; merely fairness and equity within a family we call OUR Nation; so you can start applying your thoughts to analysing and rationalising issues on the basis of logic and common sense; or seek shelter and solace in your own pigion hole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 "Well at least your attempting to engage Bonzo; rather than just trying to post others into convenient steriotypical pigeon holes, in order to maintain your orientation in life." Comparing Bonzo with yourself, then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Sure Bonz can speak for himself, no need for divine intervention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzodog Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 good morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 On the subject of terrorism, some people are suggesting that many of the bosses of banks and financial services businesses have conducted economic terrorism over a period of years, the results are now obvious for all to see. The Anti-terrorism, Crime & Security Act 2001 seems to be an appropriate one to use in the current situation afterall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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