Britain falling apart -

[Observer II]

The latest crisis over the safety of our schools, due to faulty concrete, is analogous to the overall state of the Nation. Britain, our way of life, is literally falling apart, and the politicians haven't a clue or the will to fix it.  😠

[Observer II]

Listening to the political banter on TV,  with the usual blame game between the two main Parties being played out;   I heard one comment that puzzled me.   It was mentioned that the life expectancy of many of the public building projects was less than 30 years, which means these schools were built, knowing they would need to be replaced within that time period,.  We're now in the 21st Century, where buildings built by the Romans, using water proof concrete, are still standing and in use.   With the Country in dire need of massive infrastructure modernisation, to make us internationally competative , I think we have to ask why all Governments can't address such fundimentals by long term planning and investment, and the answer seems to be, that the nature of our political system locks politicians into electoral short termism, where they only commit to policies designed to reap electoral reward within a five year time span.     

[Confused52]

No, that is what the media want you to think. The life expectancy was determined as 30 years some 30 years ago when material installed in the mid 1960s, some 30 years earlier, started to fail. The Building Research Establishment put out a warning in 1996. Planks from the mid 1980's onwards were constructed differently apparently. It wasn't planned for only a 30 year life at all. The ones likely to fail are also cited as having been messed about or overloaded by adding stuff on top since the most common use was for roof panels as I understand it from the press. The BBC in particular are well into campaigning for the approved result at the next General Election at the moment as you will have noticed.

[Observer II]

I have noticed.   But this problem was going on under both Parties. All Labour do is blame it on 13 yrs of Tory rule, but much of a woes started under Labour , eg Bliar's flooding of our Universities with woke idealogy and mickey mouse degrees.  The problem is, the Tories don't have the backbone to do what's needed to sort our current problems out, in line with public demands. 😠

[Bill]

Probably completely wrong but I once heard an argument that schools weren’t really built to last because the demographics tend to only last one generation. I.e., build a brand-new estate and you’ll likely need a new school but once most the kids from that estate get past school age, there’ll be a generational gap and the school becomes unviable. The kids get moved to nearby schools and the building is either converted to something else or pulled down.

I moved to a brand-new estate (Orford) as a child and grew up with lots of others about my age, in fact I had playmates in almost every house on the street. But by the time I moved from there, most of the kids had married off and moved elsewhere so with just the parents remaining, there wasn’t a great call for schools in that area.

I assume the planners know a lot more than I do about this so maybe there’s something in this 30-year life expectancy??? Plus, if you know your probably going to pull it down in thirty years, it doesn’t make sense to build it to last forever.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

I can tell you based on experience that the planners in Warrington are utterly hopeless at predicting school place needs. The people who knew how to do it were Cheshire County and the New Town Corporation. New Housing estates seem to attract the maximum number of kids at age 3 when they are first built. The average time people stay in a house is determined by the number of bedrooms and the number of children per family. These days it is less predictable than it was. Warrington don't bother with any of that predicting nonsense though. When new houses are built the section 106 funding to rebuild the old existing school nearest the development and then send excess kids to the other schools nearby. They build extra capacity in the new development only too late. If they still run out it is temporary classroom time. The problem  is likely yo be that knowing the turnover of family homes in mixed developments is difficult. I was a baby boomer in the Midlands and all the primary schools built on the large council estate I was on are still in use today as schools but I was was in a class of 42 through throughout. The lifetime of a school is not planned as 30 years anywhere I have been.

[Observer II]

Well, it seems these buildings now have extended demand, not by school kids, but by asylum seekers.  However, with over a million legally allowed in on visas this year, they'll still need schools, but with bi-lingual students .

[Bill]

That’s probably true but it’s not really the main issue here.

What I don’t understand is if the powers that be have known about this for so long, why has it overnight become a sudden emergency that forces the immediate closure of schools. It would have been logical and made far more sense over that period of time to just gradually carry out repairs during the school holidays and avoid any further loss of education.  

If the situation was safe enough for the kids to attend school last week it should be just as safe now so who actually made this snap decision? I’d love to hear their explanation but as far as I know the media seems to have skipped over this important point and focused instead on the headline grabbing bit of “roof falling on schoolkids”.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Tat sounds about right Bill. It's about blaming a Tory Gov ready for the next election, and most of the MSM are at it.😠

[Observer II]

But the real blame imo falls on our so-called political system, which Brexit shows isn't democratic and is politically myopic.  The idea of building a brave new Nation, with a modernised infrastructure capable of supporting our population in the future, is undermined by grubby self seeking politicians, who are dedicated to their personal  and Party electoral interests,  so any policy requiring more than a decade to reach fruition is ignored.  This was illustrated in the past with the sewage crisis in London, where raw sewage caused by the Thames being a raw sewer, was only finally tackled, when the nauseous smell made life in Westminster unviable, and a scheme of massive interceptor sewers were laid alongside the Thames to take the waste clear out to sea. But now, in the 21st Century, we have a water/sewage crisis affecting our rivers and coasts to the detriment of public safety, and no political commitment to resolve it, because ultimately, there are no short term votes in it, and we have politicians incapable of leadership and vision.      😠

[Bill]

All very true, but they did at least manage to get a law through the other day when they banned the recreational use of laughing gas. Thinking about it though, if they’d have made it freely available to everyone, all these problems wouldn’t matter, and we could just sit back and laugh about it. 😊

BTW Obs, I thought of you last night while driving down Priestly Street where I noticed one of those big electronic advertising displays near to Rock Oil which simply read WE NEED MORE IMEGRATION alongside what looked like an Asian a prayer mat. There may be some truth there but I reckon most people wouldn’t see it that way. Wonder who pays to put that sort of message up on a billboard??? 😕🧐

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

52 minutes ago, Bill said:

Wonder who pays to put that sort of message up on a billboard

either farmers of the NHS...

whomever it was needs to have a word with the typist who is deaf and possibly bad at inglish....🤦‍♂️

[Observer II]

I'm afraid I dispair for the future of this Country, the only consolation is that I won't have long to see it.   These issues aren't being addressed by the politicians, Labour has hit a brick wall in realising that any plans they make will require funding and that would require massive borrowing, which isn't a bad thing, providing it's invested wisely. But their last venture into providing more hospitals, was based on PFI schemes, that won't be permanent.   The sum total of all these woes is a metaphor for the state of the Nation.

[Lt Kije]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:58 PM, Observer II said:

Well, it seems these buildings now have extended demand, not by school kids, but by asylum seekers.  However, with over a million legally allowed in on visas this year, they'll still need schools, but with bi-lingual students .

Odd, you are still against immigration, your failure is simple, we need immigration, we have a fast ageing population, something you seem very short-sighted on, so unless you intend to introduce Solent green as a solution, you had better get used to the idea, don't forget, you fell for the lie, that Brexit would sort that, I have the satisfaction of not falling for it

[Observer II]

You clearly have no idea as to what my motivation is. Brexit was about National control and accountability,  against the one world, no borders nonsense of the woke middle classes. Under population is now a global threat and in theory, should suit the eco loons, by reducing global consumption.  The solent green option is still on the table, as world elites transfer to robotic forms of support, making the peasants surplus to requirements.   As for "satisfaction",  the woke middle classes are so hung up on the fact that they were outvoted by the great unwashed, that they now wish to dispense with democracy and are taking over the ship by other means.  😠

[Lt Kije]

Tell me obs, what control have we got back, I did mention Apple didn’t I, tell me what control you actually have now!!??, or was an illusion, one that you fell for!!

[Observer II]

Well, we have our own political control, despite the fact our politicians don't know how to use it or are so useless, they prefer to pass the buck to Brussels.  

[Lt Kije]

Do we have control, no, you only need to look at immigration to see that😂😂

[Observer II]

Read what I said ffs - We don't have control because our pathetic politicians supported by a woke middle class civil service have failed to exercise it.

[Lt Kije]

Wrong, we are restricted by what we can do by the UN!! And the ECHR, as you are very a where, hence you now what out of the court, and when that does not work, it will be the turn of the UN, you seem stuck in your view, the UK is a small player on the world stage, we will never come out of the UN as we sit at the top table on the security council, and you will find if you look that much of the ECHR is backed by UN mandates, you are along way out of your time, the UK no longer has an Empire, and we are a bit part player on the World stage

[Observer II]

Our pathetic politicians have the opportunity to leave the ECHR, but declined.  What's required is politicians with the gonads to start acting in the National interest, which means eliminating any obstructions to that end.  

[Confused52]

The European Convention on Human Rights which is used with its case law from the Strasbourg Court bears little resemblance to the document which was signed by the UK. It has been modified over time by a process of "dynamic interpretation" which means that the court feels free to overturn its own case law in favour of a more modern position. This is a feature which is simply not present in normal UK law (unless you are Lady Hale) and not a single parliament in Europe gave the court permission to do it, they just did it for themselves. This leaves governments unable to predict what they will be stopped from doing next. The UK is not the only place where the legitimacy of the court is being questioned. This subject was also covered by former Supreme Court Judge Jonathon Sumption in one of his Reith Lectures where his view was that Judges are intervening too much in Politics particularly on the subject of Human rights. The Strasbourg Court of Human Right needs checks on its powers so that the changes in interpretation are agreed by members. That is done in the UN treaties where Member states do not accept some changes by claiming reservation but they are clearly identified and the treaty or convention document itself is modified. In the case of the ECHR the convention document is unchanged and does not tell a member state what its responsibilities are, it is fundamentally undemocratic.

[Lt Kije]

I stated Obs wants out of the ECHR, and when that does not work, he will want out of the UN, which is not going to happen, As to the Reith Lecture, that is his opinion!!

You do know that Nigel Farage used RETAINED Eu law with his dispute with the banks the other month Obs

[Observer II]

If it doesn't suit us, we simply ignore it - sorted.  

[Lt Kije]

39 minutes ago, Observer II said:

If it doesn't suit us, we simply ignore it - sorted.  

Sorry international agreements won’t let us, as you know