Green money making racket.

[Observer II]

I think we're talking about those who find they can't manage the bills, may be homeless, they'll have to try anything to keep warm.   Apparently there's been an increase in indigenous homeless folk, while illegal migrants get free heating in hotels,  the world's turning topsy turvy.   

[Bill]

To be fair, we’ve always had people in that predicament since both you and I were kids so this isn’t really something we can entirely hang on the green agenda. I agree that the problem exists but in this day and age we should by now have evolved into a fairer society where people living on the edge don’t have to suffer energy poverty. Technology should be making power more affordable for everyone but in private hands it’s just generating obscene amounts of income for already wealthy investors. The fact that illegal immigrants get it for free while the general public don’t is wrong but in overall terms, that’s a drop in the ocean.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Western Govs seem incapable of sorting things out,  while they are absorbed in woke gender and net zero nonsense,  the basic issues that affect the majority of folk are ignored.   We're short of affordable housing for starters, with millions of immigrants being allowed into the country, increasing demand for health, housing and education, and we simply can't cope, but no politicians have answers.  😠

[Bill]

All of which might be true, but it’s got little to do with what you call a green money-making racket. As I see it, the government only make the green rules based on what they believe to be the best scientific evidence but it’s the energy companies and the producers and suppliers of the green alternatives that get to cash in on the deal. The only way the government could be accused of being responsible would be if they were in control of the entire energy sector, including the production of all the energy saving devices that they want us to use. Then if that dosn't work we can all have a right good moan.  

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Wonder how many MPs retiring at the next election will get jobs with our energy sector ?    btw they've just agreed to increase their golden goodbye payments from £8k to £17k !   

[Bill]

They could go into the energy sector in telesales, then ring your landline and tell you how much you could save. 😄

I’ve just seen an advert for a type of green energy saver that seems to be on the increase. It’s basically just a big battery for your house that gets charged up using off peak electricity then either used or sold back at peak. A bit like the old storage radiators I suppose but without the heat. How much you could make from doing this and how long the batteries would last before needing replacing isn’t clear but one things for certain, something like this is going to be expensive. 🧐

It's not exactly a racket or a scam but I reckon overall there’d probably be less of a return than most people think. It’d be greener if it were charged by solar rather than the mains, but it’s claimed to be primarily for those that can’t have solar panels. Hmmm, I’ve got my doubts about all this, but if lots of stupid rich people did it, it might help to balance the grid a little which benefits everyone.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

car batteries have a life span of between 3 and 5 years according to some places, depending of the rating.

i was talking to the traffic warden a while back. he was telling me that the old petrol scooters had been replaced with an electric version, this was after he had almost run me down as they make very little noise. i can't remember how much they cost but he did say that a replacement battery was about £500.

so what it would cost for a 'big' battery i shudder to think.

just had a quick look at heat pump prices. one that will do a radiator and hot water comes in around the £10,000. mark for an air to hot water pump. that is based on a one person occupier in a mid terrace. don;t think i will be taking up the new incentive at those prices.

[Bill]

Yep that’s certainly expensive Sid and that’s why I said it makes sense to install that sort of thing in the first place with new builds. The heat pump itself isn’t that much more expensive than a gas boiler but it’s the labour charges involved if the whole system needs to be ripped out and replaced.

As for the life of batteries, it depends on several things, most notably how hard you make them work and also the point where you decide they’re not good enough for your application. I saw a video the other day where they said after 200,000 miles of driving, a Tesla battery will have lost about 10% of it’s capacity and range. Not sure I believe that, but your traffic wardens scooter battery probably gets hammered and as soon as it’s lost enough to make it so they can’t fully make their rounds it’ll need replacing.

I’ve just ordered an extra battery for my solar to take it from a 24 to 36-volt system. At this higher voltage I can’t accidentally overcharge with a sudden burst of sun, plus the inverters run a lot more efficiently when not at their lower operational limit. The downside is that now with three batteries in series, I’ll have to add a voltage balancing arrangement to keep the charge on each battery even and that’s more cost ☹

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

but think of the future savings on your bills...

i bet it is still cheaper than a ready made system as well along with the satisfaction of having achieved it.

[Bill]

Yep it’s not bad.. No sun at the moment but still managing to cover all the needs of the house and the battery’s full and just trickle charging.

What miffs me off with all these so-called deals you see on the internet is the fact that none of them seem to want to give you an approximate price per panel unless you give them all your details so their salespeople can get their teeth into you. Then they can tell you anything and unless you understand solar with all it’s quirks, you just have to take their word for it. As a general rule the kit itself isn’t that expensive and it’s the installation process that whacks it up.

A bloke in my local was telling me a while back that he’s just had a company install solar on his roof at no cost to him. He gets free electricity while the sun shines and they get paid for whatever goes back to the grid. That sounds better and a lot easier that what I’ve done but I’ll have to see him again to see how things are working out because it’s not the way most companies operate.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

Bill, I was looking for prices and circuits for what you talked of earlier. I found some prices at uk@renogy@com; are they not in the right ballpark?

 

[Bill]

In a word NO.

Renogy is a well know company that seems to specialize mainly in low voltage (12Volt) panels and standard plug in (not grid tie) inverters for off grid applications such as boats and caravans. Their products are expensive but more importantly, they’re completely unsuitable for home use.

Most solar panels found in home installations have a nominal working voltage of 30V. That voltage essentially goes from nothing in the dark and up to nearly 40V in bright sun and a full-size panel will generate about 400W. To connect these to your house mains, you need a grid tie inverter with a power rating very approximately equal to your total panels.

From then on its dead easy. Red wire to the red terminal, black to black, plug it in, turn it on and you’re done. The only other costs would be the connecting wire which needs to be rated at about 20 amps and maybe some form of mounting bracket although I’d recommend making your own. Oh, and don’t use the mega expensive solar connectors, just cut them off and use a terminal block from your junk box.

If you’re thinking of going down this line, it might be a good idea to come and have a look at how I’ve arranged mine.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

Thanks Bill, I was looking from the perspective of fully a off-grid application, which has gone away as fast as it appeared!

[Bill]

Whoops I beg your pardon. I assumed you were looking at installing at your home rather than away from it so in which case Renogy might be a good choice for a one stop shop, although you could probably get Chinese clones a lot cheaper. 

 

Bill

[Bill]

Getting back on topic, there was some debate on TV yesterday about gas boilers and how the companies that produce them are claiming that modern units can run on a mixture of natural gas and 20% green hydrogen. While that may be true, as far as I know, there’s no firm plan to do this at the moment so the greens see this as just some kind of evil attempt to prolong the use of gas.

There’s no law that say’s we must change to using electric or heat pumps for our heating or go to jail, that’s just fake internet stuff. In the future you’ll still be able to replace an old gas boiler with a new one so no worries there, although if gas prices rise significantly it might make economic sense to change.  

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

There is a law Bill, currently making it's way through the HoP, called the Energy Bill.  All houses will require an Energy Performance Certificate, which will require changes to energy use and the provision of insulation.  Gas prices will be allowed to rise, as supply is gradually phased out, in favour of the green alternatives. This is the great vision for net zero, and imo represents the greatest act of self harm in human history, and the peasants are sleep walking right 😠into it. 

[Confused52]

Wrong again! The Energy Performance Certificate already exists, it is an EU regulation. It specifies the Energy Efficiency of a dwelling and is required for sale of a property. The Energy Act replace the EU regulations and will specify what a householder can do to improve efficiency, as it does now. It does not require that the owner actually does it. It makes no sense as the worst houses with the most work needed will be owned by the poorest people. Requiring them by force of law to pay money they don't have will need a lot of prison places with free accommodation and loss of tax revenue to the economy. It is economically illiterate like the hacks who write this guff in the MSN.

[Observer II]

So you can promise that nothing will change in relation to my property in the future ?  Not even a remote meter ?    

[Confused52]

When Labour get in you will get stitched up in all sorts of ways you and I cannot even imagine. I don't give blank cheques!

[Bill]

He'll be telling us next he dosn't trust a water meter.

 

Bill  

[Observer II]

Actually, I don't !     😉

[Bill]

And I guess from that answer you’re not going to tell us why?

We changed to a water meter about ten years ago and our bills dropped massively. We’re not especially carful when it comes to using water but with only two of us in the house we just don’t use as much as a normal family. I’m not certain but I think we only pay about a third of what we did without the meter.

I’ve just filled in an online questionnaire from Warrington council to see what they think a typical solar plus battery system would cost for my house. They reckon they’ve set up some kind of bulk buying deal with local installers who will then bid for my custom. But rather than me being pestered, they’ve set up something like “compare the market” so I’ll only get to see what was the best offer. No real intention to go down that line at my age, but it’ll be interesting to see how the numbers work out.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Fortunately Bill, I don't need to penny pinch, and never have been, it's not my nature.  I pay my water bill, as I pay my Council tax, that's why I don't have a meter fitted to my waste bin.   😉

[Bill]

I don’t have a water meter fitted to my waste bin either, neither doe’s anyone else for that matter but it’s certainly not penny pinching to pay for what you use. And btw, it’s not pennies we’re talking about, our bill dropped by about £40 per month and I’d bet that yours would do the same if you changed.

Just as a comparison, I think we currently pay about £20 per month. Wonder what you pay?

Edit. Correction £23.40.

 

Bill 😊

[Bill]

I was watching Talk TV yesterday where they were interviewing a leading sceptic discussing the energy bill and how everything about it was set to harm us. Then later on in the day I watched a lengthy YouTube presentation by a bloke who I believed had a positive and far more realistic take on how things would work.

The crux of the argument all came down to who controls how and when we use power. The sceptic claimed the use of smart meters would allow the power companies to dictate when we could use power and when we couldn’t. He reminded me of former poster Asperity who also argued that everyday items like phone charges and washing machines could be remotely turned off on us and there’s nothing we could do about it. The interviewer allowed the sceptic full reign and appeared to agree with everything he said thus giving credibility to his views and I reckon that this would have put many off having a smart meter.

The problem with all this is that if you don’t understand the technology it’s far easier to simply reject it rather than try to understand it. The YouTube story was lengthy and wasn’t easy for me to follow, but it explained how if people chose to use the Teck then they could not only make savings but potentially make significant amounts of money. This is reality and it’s happening now but the important point to note is that it’s our choice and not that of the power companies..

If I were twenty years younger I think I might be doing this but as usual, it takes a lot of investment and if you’ve not got it then it’s not going to happen.

 

Bill 😊