What to do on Thursday if you're disgusted with every party

[Gary]

Ooh, careful Paul. Your petticoat is showing.

Can't get the broadcasts to run Gary. How can I do it?

Thanks

 

They are basic window media files (WMV)- try double clicking on the screen if it is not starting automatically.

Also check you have your active x controls enabled.

[observer]

While we're on about "voting"; according to the Joseph Rowntree Trust; the UK Electoral System is now more insecure and open to abuse, since the introduction of postal voting on demand 8 years ago. Robert Mugabe please take note - that's the way to do it!

[Stephen Taylor]

If the council's claims over lost polling cards is anything to go by, a high percentage of postal votes won't get delivered. They claim that the missing polling cards are the fault of Royal Mail!

[Dizzy]

I read their press release earlier today although they weren't blaming it on Royal Mail in that

 

So we have a borough wide problem with the polling cards, changed locations of polling stations and also a possible loss of postal votes too

 

Maybe they should postpone the elections in Warrington

[Paul Kennedy]

I read their press release earlier today although they weren't blaming it on Royal Mail in that

 

 

Which makes you think.

[observer]

Perhaps our Electoral Officers could get second jobs in Zimbawe?!

[Dizzy]

Is that far enough away though?.... and why only the electoral officers?.... can't most of the councillors be sent too PLEASE

[Stephen Taylor]

Let's twin with Harare, we could swap our for theirs.

 

Present unelected ones excepted of course

[Carmina Fothergill]

So Carmina, use your ballot paper and vote, you are handing your future and the democratic process back in to the hands of a minority; many people have stuggled and given their lives over the years to allow us to vote. Keep voting and you will be able to change things, fail to vote, and I doubt it will change anything. Also, use the ballot paper properly, so that the tree did not die in vain.

 

I don't think you've really understood the concept, dear. In fact I don't think anyone else really has, either.

 

This isn't about simply not voting. You can do that by staying at home.

 

This is about what people can do if they honestly can't vote for any of the parties standing. The title of the topic should make that clear.

 

Virtually all my adult life I've voted for one of the two major parties standing in these elections. That party lost my vote at both local and national level over the last couple of years. Many other people are in the same situation. If you honestly can't vote for any of these people, what do you do?

 

What I'm trying to suggest is a way for people to register their complete dissatisfaction with the people they're expected to vote for.

 

What else do you do when you vote for someone and they lose interest as soon as they're elected, as my previous local candidate did? What else do you do when they're not interested in issues that are supposed to be important ones on their party's agenda - and when they subsequently claim to have been interested, despite having done nothing and ignored opportunities to improve things, as if mere empty talk is somehow enough to fill the void left by lack of action; as if it doesn't matter what you did so long as you can lie about it convincingly? What else do you do when politicians lie openly and shamelessly to push their own personal agendas, at great cost to the people who live in this country?

 

What, finally, do you do when things are so bad that you're not sure whether it's better to have politicians who do nothing, because that might be better than the harm they do?

 

Not turning up at the polling station gives these people an excuse to claim that non-voters are merely apathetic. So I'm trying to suggest a way to show how many of us aren't apathetic at all, but basically angry and disgusted - and we're more than ready to vote for someone we can trust to do a decent, competent job.

 

So, we're likely to be ignored? What else is new? How is that different from voting for someone and then being ignored anyway, while that person makes an elaborate and hollow show of pretence at doing something worthwhile?

 

If I'm on my own with this, there won't be much effect. But if enough of us do the same thing, that at least gets the message across that people are out here ready to vote for someone able and willing to do a proper job instead of making a mere pretence of doing so.

 

And that's what a democracy is supposed to be about - numbers of people gathering together to say what we feel and what we believe in. If none of the parties being represented have any connection with what we feel and what we believe in, there's only one option left for us as voters.

[Paul Kennedy]

Ever thought of standing yourself.

[Chrissy]

Excellent post Carmina and I think many of us have felt similarly at one time or another. The issue is really about whether you believe it is possible to effect change whilst standing on the outside. Personally I decided that to support the changes, both local and national, that I wanted to see I needed to fight from the inside. So I became involved in politics, gained a clear understanding of how politics works and made a commitment to be fully involved.

No party will meet all of your hopes and wishes, and councillors and MPs will make decisions you disagree with. This doesn't mean they are not doing their job - ki -ora syndrome.

I strongly disagreed with the demolition of SH school. Like everyone else, I had my say, but on that occasion my hopes weren't realised. That doesn't affect my commitment to my party because commitment has to be built on core principles. Those who change their commitment just because of one or two local decisions don't go their way will be very disappointed. Councillors and MPs represent hundreds and thousands of people and no decision will gain absolute universal support.

Have you spoken to your local candidates to express your views?

[Shelley]

Ever thought of standing yourself.

When I hear this I am reminded of the system that would make this practical for any of us and help a lot with democratic involvement.

 

We need the rank voting scheme that they have in Australia. You rank the candidates in order of preference. With that system you could even vote for yourself or anyone else you think is better than the ones on the ballot as first choice, and still not lose your vote. The way it works then is that nobody wins until they get over 50% of the votes. If no candidate has over 50% the last place candidate is thrown out and their votes translated to the elector's second choice. Continue until somebody has over 50%. If your second choice candidate gets thrown out, you vote gets transferred to your 3rd choice, etc.. No need even for parties, anyone with enough signatures gets on the ballot, every other eligible person is an acceptable write-in.

[observer]

Sounds like a rather democratic option! Think you'll find that well meaning individuals who do "stand", are quickly compromised by their peers into "fiiting in" with club activies, added to which, a Party Whip ensures that Party interests and dogma supercede community aspirations. Just keep writing on your ballot paper your prefered Party or Candidate (thus spoiling your ballot paper), IF enough folk keep doing this the Parties/Candidates will begin to emerge; as they have in two wards of the Town.

[Dizzy]

I strongly disagreed with the demolition of SH school. Like everyone else, I had my say, but on that occasion my hopes weren't realised.

 

Along with many other peoples hopes too

 

I don't actually recall any Lid Dem BC's openly objecting to the demolition of the school ... infact wasn't their stance quite the opposite ?

[observer]

Q. Should politicians follow public opinion, or lead it? Seems at the moment they do niether!

[Chrissy]

I have said that I have no role on the council. I made my comments in the same way that everyone else was able to do.

[Bazj]

I stayed at the Holiday Inn on Brighton Seafront when the Lib Dem conference was on (I was down there on proper business; not messing about playing at being important politician type stuff!)and got to sit in the bar one night and I was actually quite amazed at how "Tory" all the delegates were were who were in the bar with me.

 

Lots of guffawing and back slapping.... quite disturbing. The highlight of my stay was the following morning when I was checking out, "Ming" was coming in as I was leaving and was shaking everybodys hands as he entered..... needless to say I kept mine out of the way!!

 

I actually think that one of the people in the bar was Nick Clegg but can't be sure.... I was a bit tipsy!!

[Chrissy]

Baz you really do clutch at straws to make your point-which is based (if based on anything) on a one off event that 'fits' your point of view. I can assure you that, having attended many Lib Dem conferences and been a party member for years, our strength is in our diversity. Indeed I think anyone who still believes that any of the three main parties can be defined by class are living in the dark ages.

[Dizzy]

I have said that I have no role on the council. I made my comments in the same way that everyone else was able to do.

 

But Chrissy you said

 

The issue is really about whether you believe it is possible to effect change whilst standing on the outside. Personally I decided that to support the changes, both local and national, that I wanted to see I needed to fight from the inside.

 

Which reads as if you DO have a role on the council (perhaps parish level rather than borough so I appologise if I got that wrong ) otherwise you wouldn't have put it. How can you be fighting from the 'inside' and standing on the 'outside' at the same time

 

People aren't stupid Chrissy

[Chrissy]

No, I have no role on parish or borough at candidate, councillor or officer level. As I said, I'm a party member and supporter-one of the foot soldiers delivering leaflets and canvassing. By fighting from the inside I meant joining a party, voting, attending public meetings, writing letters etc etc. Basically getting involved rather than sitting back and complaining.

Who on earth do you think I am? I'm fascinated now! Give me a clue.

[Legion]

I have heard before people saying that if you don't like those standing, you could always stand yourself, as if its some sort of call to arms, to be counted.

 

Well its not!

 

its an insult

 

we can complain about them, their methods, their lack of apparent intrest until its time for their elctions, them jumping on the bandwagons of other peoples works.

 

why?

 

because they are supposed to work for us, and were not sat around just moaning on our backsides aas you would suggest

 

We have dedicated our time into serving the economy, community and our families in other ways.

 

I have lots to complain about, I have the right to complain because I AM THIER BOSS, I AND OTHERS PAY THEIR WAGES and we're not satisfied, we complain so that they can go and others more worthy who do have the time can setp in.

 

its a poor response, remember they are at our employ, if it were a builder, a hamburger, a painter and we complain about the standard of workmanship we do not expect the painter to tell us to do it ourselves.

[Carmina Fothergill]

Exactly, Legion. You've hit the nail on the head - which is much better than hitting our heads with a nail, like Paul Kennedy.

 

If I'm listening to a crap piano player, I don't say "Right, let me play the piano parts as well as continuing to play my cello." I say "Get rid of this useless tosser and we'll get someone who can actually do what they're supposed to be doing," and I continue to play my part in the string section, to the best of my own ability.

 

It seems we're all playing our own parts, hopefully to the best of our ability, while the people in politics try to get away with taking as much as they can and falsely taking credit for anything they think puts them in a good light. Doing a bad job is inexcusable - and printing endless leaflets slagging off the opposition party and falsely claiming to be doing a good job makes matters worse.

[Peter T]

Even Confucius couldn't better the last two posts.

[observer]

Generally; politicians (using your analogy!) "play the piano (badly)", cos they can't play any other instrument, couldn't be bovvered reading the music and don't know the score!

[Paul Kennedy]

Exactly, Legion. You've hit the nail on the head - which is much better than hitting our heads with a nail, like Paul Kennedy.

 

 

No that simply isn't true, I'm merely inviting others to join in as I am doing, and of course at this moment in time I'm not a Councillor at all, and therefore your comment in relation to me is totally absurd.