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So where's the justice in that?


Bazj
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Two teenagers torch an old listed barn in Orford and get 3 and a half years each for doing so. Warrington Council, its councillors and officers have been responsible for destroying and neglecting umpteen listed buildings over the years and they get away with it...... Shouldn't some of them be locked up too??

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It's the law of the land Baz. Those that make the law get away with breaking it.  Time for revolution.

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I am guessing it costs a lot of money to keep these buildi9ngs empty, it is a waste so many fine buildings have been demolished or stand empty still, shame on these that run our council, incompatence also is a word that comes to mind. Still we elect these people,

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I agree about The Council destroying our built heritage. One, fairly, recent example was the old Boteler Grammer School which should have been a listed building or at least a locally listed building but, despite a plea from many Warringtonians for it to be saved it was demolished anyway!

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  • 4 weeks later...
to make an access road to a new housing estate of all things...... Whoever signed that one off really should be put up in front of a wall and shot

I stilll do not know how they got away with that and no one complained to the police or whoever oversees councils.

 

There should have been a criminal investigation into the back ground how this came around. The access road is a lame explenation

 

In my view

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Steve.... do you think it is right that two teenagers get jail for burning down an old barn and yet Warrington Councillors have destroyed or sold off:

 

Bewsey Old Hall,

The Old Boteler Grammar School,

The Old School on Church Street (Leaving just the front bit)

The Bay Horse,

The 17th Century Villa opposite the Bay Horse,

Stockton Heath Primary School (against the wishes of the majority of the parents - and replaced with a school that has spent most of its time in special measures)

and of course the next thing to be deemed "beyond repair" will be the cabinet works in the town centre (as no doubt it falls in the way of some wild scheme to bring people back into the town centre....

 

The only place which seems to have a chance now are the old Glass Houses at Walton Hall.... another place which was in the process of shady dealings to be sold off before it was stopped after a massive outcry

 

Granted most of the above are or were not listed; but they were of importance to the heritage of the town. A town which has had its' heart ripped out when it comes to buildings and places of historic interest by successive councils over the years....

 

Of course the defence of "oh they did it on a Sunday...." and all that, but it just isn't on. We have turned the entirety of Bridge street into a solemn shrine to a very sad event... the river of life has turned into the steady stream of death for the towns main street. Skittles have been slapped all over town which as far as I am aware has absolutely bugger all to do with Warringtons past heritage as a wire and steel town (unless they represent the skittles at the old American bowling alley on their site in Sankey)

 

Look around at Wigan, Liverpool, Manchester... all have old buildings at their heart which have been granted a new lease of life by restoration and alternative uses..... I mean it isn't like you lot don't screw enough money out of us... reduced services, cuts to the bin collections and huge new developments; all of which will swell the coffers even more with all the new band "D" & "E" properties.... people moving to a town with most of its heritage either gone or soon to be so..... I personally would be ashamed

 

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.... and not to mention the old Forge machinery from Stockton Heath which was whittled away for scrap no doubt (did anyone think to ask where it was?)

 

The only thing we have managed to track down is the cap off the old Cockhedge Chimney which apparently resides in the Council yard in Stockton Heath.... are there plans to put it back in the town where it belongs? or is that too going to disappear on a Sunday to some local scrapyard?

 

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"Warrington Council, its councillors and officers have been responsible for destroying and neglecting umpteen listed buildings over the years and they get away with it."

Steve.... do you think it is right that two teenagers get jail for burning down an old barn and yet Warrington Councillors have destroyed or sold off:

 

Bewsey Old Hall  -  still there, in use  (not the Council's to sell)

 

The Old Boteler Grammar School  - not listed (I heard the developer might have retained it but I don't know whether they'd have wanted something in return like lower s.106 payments)

 

The Old School on Church Street (Leaving just the front bit)  -  facade still there, I don't know how bad the rest was

 

The Bay Horse  -  demolished illegally, developer fined a mere £16K as magistrates believed it was a genuine mistake - not sure how that's the Council's fault

 

The 17th Century Villa opposite the Bay Horse,  - (17th century?)  so far as I know the only listed building that the Council has consented to demolish in over 20 years, and it was falling down

 

Stockton Heath Primary School   -  not listed  -  (against the wishes of the majority of the parents - I think the parents were mostly in favour  -  and replaced with a school that has spent most of its time in special measures)  I'm not sure how that relates to demolition

 

and of course the next thing to be deemed "beyond repair" will be the cabinet works in the town centre (as no doubt it falls in the way of some wild scheme to bring people back into the town centre....  Again. not listed. If anyone could come up with a viable scheme to retain the buildings the Council would be very pleased  -  but I may be the only councillor who isn't bothered about retaining the water tower (an Edwardian pastiche of an Italian medieval tower doesn't do much for me) especially as the cost of retaining it is a major disincentive to redeveloping the site; better to spend the million pounds to restore the useless tower on designing a better replacement building

 

The only place which seems to have a chance now are the old Glass Houses at Walton Hall.... another place which was in the process of shady dealings to be sold off before it was stopped after a massive outcry

 

Granted most of the above are or were not listed  -  so your OP is effectively just an unjustified rant at the Council  - ; but they were of importance to the heritage of the town. A town which has had its' heart ripped out when it comes to buildings and places of historic interest by successive councils over the years....

 

Of course the defence of "oh they did it on a Sunday...." and all that, but it just isn't on. We have turned the entirety of Bridge street into a solemn shrine to a very sad event... the river of life has turned into the steady stream of death for the towns main street. Skittles have been slapped all over town which as far as I am aware has absolutely bugger all to do with Warringtons past heritage as a wire and steel town (unless they represent the skittles at the old American bowling alley on their site in Sankey)

 

Look around at Wigan, Liverpool, Manchester...

Manchester City Council has just agreed consent to demolish the Ancoats Dispensary (Grade II) - not even Urban Splash could come up with a scheme - and do you really think the Arndale Cenrtre didn't get rid of lots of old buildings?  Even Wigan Casino (the Empress Ballroom) is under a shopping mall.  Where did the Cavern go?  http://www.liverpoolwiki.org/Liverpool%27s_destroyed_landmarks   And from the Council that allowed the carbuncle ferry terminal in front of the Three Graces, I will take no lessons...

 

But save Preston bus station....

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Steve.... hiding behind the old excuse of "It's not our fault" as usual?
 

There are many wonderful buildings that the town has lost - the plague house, Orford Hall to name but two (and I'm not blaming you for that) whereas other towns have kept many more by comparison rather than let them get bulldozed. Manchester has saved many buildings; and yes, no doubt there were many more fine buildings under the Arndale.... I'm not old enough to remember them...

 

With regards to Bewsey Old Hall; If it wasn't the councils to sell; who owned it?

I also note that you didn't respond to any of the remarks regarding the demise of Bridge Street nor the removal of the Forge machinery or the cap from the Cockhedge Chimney....

 

The likes of the cavern were lost when the architects of the time had convinced everyone that concrete boxes were the way forward and so history and heritage were not on as many peoples minds as it is today.... We are starting at a very low base compared to many towns as most of our old buildings have already gone; with the exception of Bridge Street - see my previous post regarding that! And I would agree with the ferry Terminal argument.... it is an eyesore; but no doubt brings in revenue for the Council!

 

 

You may think it is a cheap rant at the council; but it just seems to me that the very people who should be interested in keeping the towns heritage alive are more interested in making a fast buck and as much council tax as they can and sod the history.....

 

We have no visible reminders now of any of the things that Warrington was built around.... all the wire industry has gone and the only reminder is the fact that the local football team stole the nickname from the local rugby team when they went all Americanised..... There is no longer a reminder of the huge Cockhedge Mill; so nothing to tell the average passer-through why Warrington is there. Look at any old Colliery town; they have pit head gear on roundabouts, steelwork formed into artworks by LOCAL artists..... we need history we can see and touch; lets not lose it all?

 

and have they managed to stop Hawley's lane flooding yet?? :lol:  :lol:

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You just have no evidence that it's about "making a fast buck". There's a wire-drawing machine on Battersby Lane opposite where Rylands was - you didn't want the factory preserving, did you? As for Hawleys Lane, who's "they"? The Council or the Holy Trinity? Not even we councillors can defy gravity. Come up with a solution to stop flooding at Hawleys Lane and you can take that straight to Dragons Den.

 

Anyway, I know what I do, and that includes trying to protect the heritage in my ward, e.g. Do they have to use pvc windows? No, but if it's not in a conservation area, there's little to stop them. Having said that, I'd let the cabinet works go (but lead members and officers are still exploring alternative use).

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You just have no evidence that it's about "making a fast buck".

 

No but the suspision is there and you know the old adage "no smoke..."

 

As for the  grammar school why was it not listed then and how did it end up in the hands of developers  in the first place knowiong how dear the building was to the people of Warrington. Who granted planning premission and how did they obtain it without anyone realizing the old school would be demolished?

 

Does anyone worry about the old Ryland office block on Church St. While it might be just be a old office block, its frontage is quite cool and is the only bit left that was the old once great Rylands company (I presume it was part of Rylands).

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No but the suspision is there and you know the old adage "no smoke..."

 

As for the  grammar school why was it not listed then and how did it end up in the hands of developers  in the first place knowiong how dear the building was to the people of Warrington. Who granted planning premission and how did they obtain it without anyone realizing the old school would be demolished?

 

Does anyone worry about the old Ryland office block on Church St. While it might be just be a old office block, its frontage is quite cool and is the only bit left that was the old once great Rylands company (I presume it was part of Rylands).

Well, apart from ridiculous comments on here, there's not even any smoke.

 

Listing of "designated heritage assets" is up to the Department for Culture and Local Government, advised by English Heritage. A council can have its own "local list" but an "undesignated heritage asset" doesn't have any statutory protection, and many councils (including Liverpool) don't bother. Planning consent was granted in the full knowledge that it meant demolishing the old school (which was not listed).

 

The Rylands office block was demolished - the cottages next to "The Cottage" were adapted as the Rylands board room - and they're now within the Church St Conservation Area. It's clear that a lot of heritage buildings were lost in times past, but I really don't think there's any call to accuse present members or officers of not caring for the built heritage. http://www.warrington.gov.uk/downloads/file/911/church_street_conservation_area_appraisal

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Drove pasted the building on church street today and OK it was not part of Rytlands but the curved frontage is still interesting and would be a shame to loose it, in my view.

The Bents warehouse is early 20th century and not (IMO) that important but the Conservation Area was drawn so as to include it, which affords some protection.

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Well, apart from ridiculous comments on here, there's not even any smoke.

 

Planning consent was granted in the full knowledge that it meant demolishing the old school (which was not listed).

 

 It's clear that a lot of heritage buildings were lost in times past, but I really don't think there's any call to accuse present members or officers of not caring for the built heritage.

 

Three comments that obviously show your attitude to Warrington's old buildings and the heritage of the town.

 

"Planning consent was granted in the full knowledge that it meant demolishing the old school (which was not listed)." which was done a few short years ago when no doubt many of todays councillors had their seats back then and still did nothing. Listed or not; it was one of the oldest buildings in the town and was cast aside to build an access road!!!! absolutely bloody disgraceful if you ask me

 

.... and as for the last statement; wasn't it mostly the self same officers and councillors who, just a few short years ago were doing dodgy, secret back room deals to sell off Walton Hall and gardens to a hotel chain? Quite possibly the most used facility in the whole of the town and you lot were trying to flog it!!.... unbelievable.

 

now a few reminders of questions asked previously:

 

1. the old Forge machinery from Stockton Heath.... what happened to it and has anyone been brought to task as to its' whereabouts?

 

2. The cap from the Cockhedge Mills chimney....are there plans to put it back in the town where it belongs? or is that too going to disappear on a Sunday to some local scrapyard?

 

3. With regards to Bewsey Old Hall; If it wasn't the councils to sell; who actually owned it and how did they acquire it?

 

I just find it incredible that we had money to spend on skittles and cobbles for Bridge Street and yet nothing to keep a bit of heritage in the town

 

 

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I have deliberately refrained from commenting regarding buildings of historic interest being demolished, as what has gone has gone and all the mud slinging, teeth nashing etc can't rectify those terrible mistakes that were made and nothing can be done about it, however I should just like to say that I sincerely hope lessons have been learned and those buildings of historic value that remain in our town are preserved and looked after, however I must say I'm not hopeful. :unsure:

 

I feel an 'Adolph' video coming on!.

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