Joe Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Is that the one that comes out by the park on Manchester Road? That's the first one that sprang to mind. According to the book "Outrages, Fatal & Other, A Chronicle of Cheshire Crime 1612-1912" the location of the brook, into which James Hogworth's body was thrown, is the small stream behind the Highwayman. Apparently, according to the deeds of the pub, it is built on the very site of the murder, The Twystes, mystery solved. The story runs to 15 A5 pages, and I'm certain to post it all would infringe the author's copyright, I'll try to extract some relevant info. Watch this space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 According to my A to Z that is Padgate Brook (which runs through Bruche). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Correct. Padgate Brook runs through Bruche Park, across Manchester Road then across Kingsway and enters the Mersey near Kingsway bridge. The other brook further down is called Spittle Brook and that runs through Woolston Park. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 This is the oldest legible map of the area 1907. No trees here as it appears to have been bog land that would have been subject to seasonal flooding in years gone by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Found an 1849 OS map but not very clear due to the scale but I have ringed what appears to say Twysters, not absolutely sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Is that the one that comes out by the park on Manchester Road? That's the first one that sprang to mind. Looking at Algy's map Tracey ,the King & Queen pub is top left & that line of Bruche/Padgate Brook is the one that is closest to where the traffic lights are near the pub.The brook is about 1/200 yards up Padgate Lane towards Padgate Station. The only marking for the bridge is ,i think,2 large upright stone slabs on either side to stop pedestrians falling in.As a driver the bridge is not very noticeable as it crosses the brook on the level.As you turned into Padgate Lane there was a lawned garden on the right with a low curved wall which occupied all the corner of Padgate Lane ,then a few houses then the bridge. It is in the vicinity of Brownlow Ave / Delery Drive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Re your 1st map above Algy.... (Tracey asked about 'Bruche Holts' further back) Where you can see Twiggery Farm plot.....the plot to the right of that one is called 'Little Holts' on the tithe map and the one to the right of that one is called 'Large Holts' on the tithe maps. Both were pasture. These would have been directly to the right of the Highwayman pub land and their plots started off on Manchester Road going down from there to the u-bend of the mersey. If you look to where you have actually marked the Bruche Brooke/Padgate Stream the plot on the right hand side of the stream was 'Front Field' and the plots to the left of the stream were 'willow beds' (not that that bit is relevant but I thought I;d post in anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 According to the book "Outrages, Fatal & Other, A Chronicle of Cheshire Crime 1612-1912" the location of the brook, into which James Hogworth's body was thrown, is the small stream behind the Highwayman. Apparently, according to the deeds of the pub, it is built on the very site of the murder, The Twystes, mystery solved. The story runs to 15 A5 pages, and I'm certain to post it all would infringe the author's copyright, I'll try to extract some relevant info. Watch this space I'm watching with wide and eager eyes Jo The library may be wondering what's going on as I bet there will be a lot of enquiries about that book over the next weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) It's hard to tell from that Algy but if it is, that would put it right on Kingsway traffic lights. What you have as Bruche Hall btw looks like the old Cemetery pub or Chevies as it's called now. I would have thought Bruche Hall would have been in Bruche but that's almost in Fairfield. Bill PS Just looked a bit more carefully and it says Marsh House as in Marsh House Lane. PPS Bruche House is probably the house shown in Bruche place on the later map and on the older map its just to the right of the large N of Warrington Edited November 14, 2012 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Looking at Algy's map Tracey ,the King & Queen pub is top left & that line of Bruche/Padgate Brook is the one that is closest to where the traffic lights are near the pub.The brook is about 1/200 yards up Padgate Lane towards Padgate Station. The only marking for the bridge is ,i think,2 large upright stone slabs on either side to stop pedestrians falling in.As a driver the bridge is not very noticeable as it crosses the brook on the level.As you turned into Padgate Lane there was a lawned garden on the right with a low curved wall which occupied all the corner of Padgate Lane ,then a few houses then the bridge. It is in the vicinity of Brownlow Ave / Delery Drive . Oh, now it becomes clear, I remember the stone slabs. Am loving this thread and all the interest it's generated. Are you listening Library/Museum? This is the history people want to hear about! I'm trying to explain to my husband but he doesn't really get it. It's the contrast between the classic highwayman/swinging gibbet tale and kingsway lights! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Crikey Bill how good's your eyeshight as I could hardly make any of it out. Guess your eyes are compensating for your ears eh The second one is really hard to see Algy but it does look like it could say Twysters (although that's maybe just because my eyes are telling me that as I wouldn't have a clue if I hadn't know what word I was looking for). You can see the same line of the brook/stream on your 1849 one though and going from that it would place the word 'twysters' almost directly opposite the land where thy Highwayman Pub was which makes me think that you are absolutely right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 If anyone's interested, that book's on Amazon, I just got a copy for a penny plus postage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Arrgh I just went straight on to buy a copy Tracey as soon as I read your post but I can't remember my amazon username and password and it wont let me register again with the same email address. Even if I did manage I can't remember my paypal username either as I never use it. Bloody Hell !!! I now hate today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Try abebooks.co.uk, great for out of print books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Oh, now it becomes clear, I remember the stone slabs. Am loving this thread and all the interest it's generated. Are you listening Library/Museum? This is the history people want to hear about! I'm trying to explain to my husband but he doesn't really get it. It's the contrast between the classic highwayman/swinging gibbet tale and kingsway lights! There was another gibbet in Grappenhall, anyone know where it was ? I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Ha ha ..... I might accidentally ban you for that Jo Ok I'm off to search now before anyone else solves it... can you pm me a clue please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 There was another gibbet in Grappenhall, anyone know where it was ? I do It was on Gallowscroft on Grappenhall Heath, the last recorded use was in 1592 - William Geaton - servant to the Bishop of Chester, Executed at Chester, his body hung on chains on Grappenhall Heath, his crime - he murdered a Scottish Pedlar. It wasn't unusual for the body to be left for so long that the flesh rotted away and birds would nest in the jaw cavity, (perfectly true!). night night and sweet dreams Dizz.. :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 You bugger Algy Where was Grappenhall Heath then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Well done Algy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Errm excuse me... but he still hasn't answered the question 'Where was Grappenhall Heath then ?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Errm excuse me... but he still hasn't answered the question 'Where was Grappenhall Heath then ?' OK I'll tell you, head out on the A50 from the Dog & Dart lights towards the M6, the area around the first dog kennels on the left is the start of the Heath, Gallows Croft was on the right, just past a house called the Poplars , see http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=cheshire%20dogs%20home%20grappenhall&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 'Barry's croft' makes me snigger. I'm imagining a croft full of medieval Barry Grants, complete with curly perms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Just been doing a bit more Googling re Twysters and it seems that the word is synonymous with the stripping and twisting of branches. Given that that whole area was known locally as the “twiggery”, it could have been that Twysters was some kind of basket weaving business or something along those lines rather than simply a farm name. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Sounds logical to me Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Sounds logical to me too Bill especially considering the other previous references to 'Twiggery Farm', 'Front Field' and the 'Willow Beds' mentioned earlier in the topic. I recon you are onto something there so keep digging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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