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Horace

Balcony death father

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I was watching the TV news report about the British father who was cleared of murder in Greece arising from the incident when he jumped off a fourth floor hotel balcony with his son and daughter in his arms following an argument with his wife. I decided to speak my thoughts aloud, and said: "I wonder what the wife did to drive him to do that?" expecting a sharp rebuff from my wife.

In fact, she replied: "I was just thinking exactly the same thing."

What do others think?

Certainly the wife's comment that the not guilty verdict made her feel her son had died for nothing was an odd one. What would he have died for had the father been found guilty?

 

[ 24.01.2008, 10:24: Message edited by: Horace ]

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no matter what drives you to your actions, they are still your actions.

I would not be so leanient.

I think everyone experiences partners whos actions or even just words can drive you to dispair, if not then I must have had more than my fair share. but if I did ever consider ending it all, I would not be taking any innoncent baby or even not so innocent person with me, it would be my choice. this moster should rott.

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There is no denying that his actions killed his son and almost his daughter - but where was the control over his medication?

 

Hogan today told the court he was the best dad two children could have. He said: "I did not believe I was man enough to be a dad. But when Liam came along I was a beautiful dad."

 

Referring to his medical history of depression before the tragedy, he said: "I was having counselling. I was having medication but it wasn?t helping so I stopped the counselling and the medication.

 

"It was all my fault. I used to have panic attacks. Whatever you do to me in this court, no-one can do to me what I have already done to myself.

 

"I have lost a daughter and I have lost a son until someone decides to take my life. I?m not even allowed to write a letter to her."

 

Weeping and shaking, Hogan added: "My wife has every right to hate me. I took away her children."

 

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His actions were terrible but this man was/is mentally ill. I doubt he did it "to spite his wife", I really don't think he had any rational thought at the time.

 

I wonder about the wife's actions. As it is reported, she was aware his mental state was fragile, he had twice attempted suicide after losing his father and brothers. It seems strange that, in the middle of a holiday, she announces that she is leaving him and taking the children. If only for the sake of peace for the rest of the holiday, you'd wait until it was over wouldn't you?

 

He's got to live with himself now, knowing he killed his child. I doubt he will ever really come to terms with that other than by becoming more deranged to cope with it.

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I am aghast that people see this murdering swine as a victim!

 

HE THREW HIS OWN 6 YEAR OLD SON OFF A BALCONY ONTO A CONCRETE FLOOR, WATCHED IT HAPPEN AND THEN WENT BACK TO PICK UP HIS 2 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER AND JUMPED OFF WITH HER...

 

if that isn't plain murder then god knows what is. Having a row with your wife is no excuse, he should have been taken from the court and had a bullet in the back of his head. He has eve said he now wants to be a father to his daughter in the future and the bleeding heart doo gooder liberals will fight for him to achieve it.

 

Here is what will happen.....

 

His solicitor will appeal the sentence and try to get him to serve his time in Britain.

 

He will get to serve his time in Britain

 

He will be released after a few years with some do gooding parole lacky by his side.

 

He will get access rights to his daughter and as has been said; he will probably end up killing either his ex wife & maybe even her new husband and daughter too.

 

It will be a tradgey but no one will be to blame as is the usual case.

 

For gods sake people there are far more deserving cases for sympathy than this murdering animal who coulod do that to his own kids.... mad or not there is no excuse or that

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Agree Baz; If this guy is mentally ill and suffers from depression, of which there is a family history; the probability is, without constant supervision; that he will flip at some point in the future and do exactly what Baz speculates - what view would the bleeding hearts be taking then? :roll:

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Well thanks Bazj and Obs for your sympathetic indepth phsycological appraisal, you both have such a warm and caring nature.

 

I'm hope that I don't have to rely on either of you at a time of crisis, I wonder where your sympathies will lie when you have to help, protect or rescue someone?

 

[ 25.01.2008, 05:12: Message edited by: Student Geoff ]

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Oh come on Geoff.... I have a very caring nature but I cannot believe that anyone could have sympathy with someone who would throw their own children to their deaths.

 

The guy might be a nutter but that is no excuse... people with your views on criminals often make me wonder about how far this soft liberal approach to punishing people has actually spread into society.

 

I personally find this monster even more abhorrent than even Hindley & Brady because they killed kids they had no attachment to; this guy killed his own flesh and blood.... and people have sympathy with him? Just listen to yourselves and realise that he has a good talking laywer who will continue to spin these tales of woe and how he is already suffering and paying the price for his actions.... not half as much suffering as his poor son lying broken on a concrete floor after being dropped 50 feet by his own father.

 

For gods sake lets get real and start realising that these people don't need mollycoddling they need punishing.

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I'm sick to the high teeth of this mental illness crap as a defence, we all suffer from depression, most of us however cannot afford the luxury of sitting on our jacksies sulking at the world, true mental illness is reckognised in young children and babies, anything you develop later in life is your idleness to deal with life.

heres a simple fact for those that want to use this defence for him

 

To kill willingly another human being takes a level of mind that is outside the normal parametres of accepted society, therefor all murderers minds are wired diffrently, therefore all murdering scum should be let off on the grounds of mental irregularites...

 

but no, we choose only to demonize those without the mental caperbility to use this ideology to manipulate the jury and media and their defence to take best advantage of this law loophole, and most likely those without this forsight are the ones most deserved of using it as a legitimate defence.

 

catch 22

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There is a difference between a (mental) disability and a (mental) illness. :roll: If this calibre of folk were around during WW2; we'd have collapsed in a week. :roll:

 

[ 25.01.2008, 11:29: Message edited by: observer ]

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Obs.

 

In a lot of cases a mental illness is a disability my question to Legion was due to his apparent reference to adults with a mental illness being a form of idleness.

 

John

 

[ 25.01.2008, 12:04: Message edited by: JayC ]

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Until the 1960s suicide was a crime. I don't consider anyone who kills themself a criminal but I can consider their mental state is completely, if temporarily, abnormal. Am I wrong?

 

We all suffer from depression? No we don't. We all get depressed from time to time, not quite the same thing. I have witnessed real depression in a person I knew. You haven't a clue, believe me, unless you've seen or experienced it first hand.

 

I don't think this man knew what he was doing in the moments when he committed this awful action. Contrary to the opinions of some of you I do not have a heart that bleeds easily but I don't have a closed mind either.

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Kate.

 

I couldnt agree with you more hence my asking Legion if he actually knew someone suffering from a mental illness as his statement saying its a form of idleness is wrong and slightly insulting to the 1000's of poor people who suffer mental illness throughout their adult life.

 

John

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Until the 1960s suicide was a crime. I don't consider anyone who kills themself a criminal but I can consider their mental state is completely, if temporarily, abnormal. Am I wrong?

 

We all suffer from depression? No we don't. We all get depressed from time to time, not quite the same thing. I have witnessed real depression in a person I knew. You haven't a clue, believe me, unless you've seen or experienced it first hand.

 

I don't think this man knew what he was doing in the moments when he committed this awful action. Contrary to the opinions of some of you I do not have a heart that bleeds easily but I don't have a closed mind either.

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Originally posted by kate:

Until the 1960s suicide was a crime.

So do we lock them up instead of burying them :confused:

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Originally posted by wolfie:

Originally posted by kate:

Until the 1960s suicide was a crime.

So do we lock them up instead of burying them :confused:
I remember when my brother had his appendix removed in 1959. There was a man in the ward, unconscious, and a policeman sat by his bed waiting for him to come round so he could be arrested for attempted suicide. I was only 16 but I thought that law was bizarre and cruel.

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I make no apology to the bleeding hearts on here but I am of the opinion that this murderer should be put away for life. I don't give a monkey's for his mental state, if he is at all mentally deficient his place of incarceration should be adjusted accordingly.

I hate the phrase "He will have to live with it for the rest of his life". What about the life of the little toddler that had hardly started? Some of you lot need a reality check.

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My world is infinitely more simple than yours Kate I am not feeling sorry for a murderer,for despite your protestations to the contrary he killed an innocent child which in my world makes him a scumbag beneath contempt.

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The world actually is very simple indeed; it's just made complicated by the lack of logic of some human beings. :roll: Anyone, who is a clear danger to themselves or to others needs to be confined and supervised - oops forgot, perhaps a return of the assylums is too expensive?! :roll:

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But possibly cheaper overall, taking into consideration the costs of police, courts, experts etc. when these cases do get to court.

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I too cannot understand the logic of Geoff or Kate... Are they prepared to go and tell Mrs Newlove that the murderers of her husband should be shown compassion because they are only children and the one who isn't a child obviously has some problems which made him the way he is?

 

Will they come and stand on my doorstep and tell me that the man who muredered my wife 18 years ago should have been out on bail when he did it? and after the bleeding heart liberal parole board put him in an open prison (despite my protestations to the contrary) and said he was no longer a danger... After he then went AWOL and murdered ANOTHER innocent mother of two kids.... How would you consciences feel after that one? a double murderer 12 years apart... exactly what my predictions are for this monster!! because that is what they do, they don't just do it once and then become a pillar of society.... show me one murderer who has never committed any other crime and gone on to make something of himself...

 

Your types make me sick to the stomach because you can only ever see good in people when there is no good. You sit in your ivory towers watching the nasty world pass you by but seeing everyone who commits these heinous acts as victims of society...

 

You really have no idea what it is like to be on the receiving end of a act of murder do you? The pain and hurt that stays with you forever, not just a few years... I live the nightmare of finding my wife every day and every day I live the aftermath of the court the sentence (life.... some bloody good that was) and the following years

 

I only wish you never have to live through what I and many others have to live through every day and now what the mother of that poor kiddie killed by his father. No matter what the cause, the catalyst or the provocations, murder can NEVER be justified and in my mind, the only punishment EVER is the death penalty.

 

Baz

 

[ 26.01.2008, 10:42: Message edited by: BazJ ]

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