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Fuel poverty?

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How about some wind farm reality to compare to shale gas extraction:

 

 

Which is better, shale gas which private companies will extract without government (taxpayer) subsidy, or windmills which don't work (there are 14000 abandoned windmills in the USA) and require massive government (taxpayer)subsidy to supply an intermittent amount of electricity? :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

Heh, looks like one of Indy's, and you thought the Monbiot piece was poor.

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Do you think wind power offers value for money Fugs? Or is it just another way of transferring money from the poor to the rich? :wink: :wink: :wink:

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I think there's some way to go before we can say it gives good value for money (a bit like nuclear energy, in that sense), but (as it's a renewable) I think it's something we should continue to develop.

 

Why do you keep banging on about wind power though?

 

As I said earlier, there will come a point (hopefully before the earth resembles a deflated party balloon), when there will be no more fossil fuels to exploit: we need to get used to the idea of the inevitable now.

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I keep "banging on" as you say, because it is such an waste of resources. Why not invest in something we know will work, or at least try and make something out of wind power that will work e.g. use the electricity produced by these monstrosities (pathetic though it is) to pump water into reservoirs which can then be used as a reliable source of hydro-electric power? Or put a lot more effort into the use of the extremely powerful and extremely predictable tides around our coast? Maybe because there isn't the financial returns that the PTB want for themselves. I see a lot of these windmills around the coast,and more are going up daily, and they are not a pretty sight. Fiddlers Ferry is no work of art but I would rather have it than a load of bird shredders on my doorstep. Have you any viable suggestions how we can avoid fuel poverty Fugs, or are you just a fan (ha ha, sort of pun there) of windmills? :D :grin:

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Re "no more fossil fuels to exploit." Apart from wind farms, my other hate is global warming. If I'm wrong about the latter, we won't need fossil fuels, at least those used to keep us warm.

 

Happy days

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Estuary tidal barriers, would have a dual function (two birds with one stone) - 1) they would haness the energy of river currents and tidal surges, thus providing clean energy. 2) They would allow some control over tidal flooding events. And as a bonus, would provide direct road links across some of our major estuaries. :roll:

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Have you any viable suggestions how we can avoid fuel poverty Fugs..

 

Not sure if you mean what obs started the thread with, or a more general question of energy sources for the future. No matter, my answer's pretty much the same:

 

Use fuel more wisely

 

Don't waste the stuff

 

Insulate to kingdom come

 

Make all energy sources as safe and non-disruptive as we possibly can

 

Compensate those who have to re-locate

 

Don't get all chippy about having independent energy supplies

 

 

Er, that's all I can think of for now.

 

Thought this looks interesting:

 

http://www.desertec.org/en/

 

I think we need to start thinking about a wider range of renewables (wind, tide, solar, hydro and, hell, I'll even include nuclear), rather than a few sources of fossil fuels.

 

A timely observation from one of my all time favourite pundits on virtually anything, Nic the Greek:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/nov/21/prince-philip-windfarms-useless

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The first thing they should be doing, is providing "free" insulation of every home - the current piecemeal and convoluted attempt at provision is pathetic. :roll:

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The first thing they should be doing, is providing "free" insulation of every home - the current piecemeal and convoluted attempt at provision is pathetic. :roll:

 

Didn't you qualify obs? :blink::shock:

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In the mean time, while all these alternative energy sources are being developed, why not use the natural gas that is sitting there doing nothing? :wink: :wink: :wink:

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I'm not saying we shouldn't, but I am saying this:

 

Make all energy sources as safe and non-disruptive as we possibly can

again

 

That isn't happening with fracking.

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But think of it this way, if this was a food shortage, would it be right to say tell people not to eat GM produce until everyone was 100% satisfied that there could be no risk? If the same logic had been applied in the past for all our fossil fuels we’d probably still all be ploughing fields.

 

 

 

Bill :)

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I don't expect there'll ever be any source of energy, or food for that matter, which is 100% risk free, it's just a question of degree.

 

I'd be happier with a 30% risk than, say, a 70% risk, wouldn't you?

 

In one of the links I posted upthread there was an "expert" from the energy industry who plainly admitted that they don't know the full effects of what they are doing.

 

That sounds pretty risky to me.

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Well, given that 180 pensioners died every day of last Winter; I guess a few didn't "qualify". :roll: btw. had mine done years ago. :roll:

 

 

I would suggest that is more to do with neglect, than cavity insulation.

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Both. Insulate all homes = lower energy bills for the user = less overall consumtion of energy = win-win, it's a no brainer. :roll:

 

 

But it is not a Win Win for the energy companies. That is why it won't happen. :angry:

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IF you lived up at the Cat and Fiddle, I would agree, but given the level above sea level that is Warrington, does it make that much difference? It's not exactly the North-East or Blackpool sea front. Too much hype about cavity insulation. A bit like global warming.

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