Cleopatra Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Nile, drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 How about some wind farm reality to compare to shale gas extraction: Which is better, shale gas which private companies will extract without government (taxpayer) subsidy, or windmills which don't work (there are 14000 abandoned windmills in the USA) and require massive government (taxpayer)subsidy to supply an intermittent amount of electricity? :shock: Heh, looks like one of Indy's, and you thought the Monbiot piece was poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Do you think wind power offers value for money Fugs? Or is it just another way of transferring money from the poor to the rich? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think there's some way to go before we can say it gives good value for money (a bit like nuclear energy, in that sense), but (as it's a renewable) I think it's something we should continue to develop. Why do you keep banging on about wind power though? As I said earlier, there will come a point (hopefully before the earth resembles a deflated party balloon), when there will be no more fossil fuels to exploit: we need to get used to the idea of the inevitable now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I keep "banging on" as you say, because it is such an waste of resources. Why not invest in something we know will work, or at least try and make something out of wind power that will work e.g. use the electricity produced by these monstrosities (pathetic though it is) to pump water into reservoirs which can then be used as a reliable source of hydro-electric power? Or put a lot more effort into the use of the extremely powerful and extremely predictable tides around our coast? Maybe because there isn't the financial returns that the PTB want for themselves. I see a lot of these windmills around the coast,and more are going up daily, and they are not a pretty sight. Fiddlers Ferry is no work of art but I would rather have it than a load of bird shredders on my doorstep. Have you any viable suggestions how we can avoid fuel poverty Fugs, or are you just a fan (ha ha, sort of pun there) of windmills? :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Cleo, my E was England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Peter, no matter, England is run by a load of dictators too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re "no more fossil fuels to exploit." Apart from wind farms, my other hate is global warming. If I'm wrong about the latter, we won't need fossil fuels, at least those used to keep us warm. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Estuary tidal barriers, would have a dual function (two birds with one stone) - 1) they would haness the energy of river currents and tidal surges, thus providing clean energy. 2) They would allow some control over tidal flooding events. And as a bonus, would provide direct road links across some of our major estuaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Have you any viable suggestions how we can avoid fuel poverty Fugs.. Not sure if you mean what obs started the thread with, or a more general question of energy sources for the future. No matter, my answer's pretty much the same: Use fuel more wisely Don't waste the stuff Insulate to kingdom come Make all energy sources as safe and non-disruptive as we possibly can Compensate those who have to re-locate Don't get all chippy about having independent energy supplies Er, that's all I can think of for now. Thought this looks interesting: http://www.desertec.org/en/ I think we need to start thinking about a wider range of renewables (wind, tide, solar, hydro and, hell, I'll even include nuclear), rather than a few sources of fossil fuels. A timely observation from one of my all time favourite pundits on virtually anything, Nic the Greek: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/nov/21/prince-philip-windfarms-useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The first thing they should be doing, is providing "free" insulation of every home - the current piecemeal and convoluted attempt at provision is pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I agree, obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The first thing they should be doing, is providing "free" insulation of every home - the current piecemeal and convoluted attempt at provision is pathetic. Didn't you qualify obs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well, given that 180 pensioners died every day of last Winter; I guess a few didn't "qualify". btw. had mine done years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 In the mean time, while all these alternative energy sources are being developed, why not use the natural gas that is sitting there doing nothing? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'm not saying we shouldn't, but I am saying this: Make all energy sources as safe and non-disruptive as we possibly can again That isn't happening with fracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 But think of it this way, if this was a food shortage, would it be right to say tell people not to eat GM produce until everyone was 100% satisfied that there could be no risk? If the same logic had been applied in the past for all our fossil fuels we’d probably still all be ploughing fields. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I don't expect there'll ever be any source of energy, or food for that matter, which is 100% risk free, it's just a question of degree. I'd be happier with a 30% risk than, say, a 70% risk, wouldn't you? In one of the links I posted upthread there was an "expert" from the energy industry who plainly admitted that they don't know the full effects of what they are doing. That sounds pretty risky to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well, given that 180 pensioners died every day of last Winter; I guess a few didn't "qualify". btw. had mine done years ago. I would suggest that is more to do with neglect, than cavity insulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Both. Insulate all homes = lower energy bills for the user = less overall consumtion of energy = win-win, it's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wireboy Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Both. Insulate all homes = lower energy bills for the user = less overall consumtion of energy = win-win, it's a no brainer. But it is not a Win Win for the energy companies. That is why it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 IF you lived up at the Cat and Fiddle, I would agree, but given the level above sea level that is Warrington, does it make that much difference? It's not exactly the North-East or Blackpool sea front. Too much hype about cavity insulation. A bit like global warming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 So do you manage with a T-shirt in Winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Obs, here's Peter, earlier today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Peter looks just like United's manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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