Bazj Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 The two monsters that almost killed two other kids in Yorkshire have been given a minimum jail term of just 5 years each. Personally I think they should be executed for what they did because boy oh boy did they enjoy it and they really did know it was wrong. What do others think and are the liberal ideas of not smacking and the abolishment of corporal punishment to blame for all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Quote you the Beeb news page: "From the age of nine the older brother smoked cannabis and drank cider and the family home saw 'routine aggression, violence and chaos'" That's how those two brothers got there. They were taught that adults got power by doing things like that and it was normal. They want to be grown up and feel powerful, that's what they do. I'd shoot them, because they are beyond saving - but I'd shoot their parents too. I don't hold with "blaming society" views. This pair warped their kids with bad parenting. Whether everyone else administers the odd appropriate slap or even whether we hang murderers has no bearing on this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Their intentions can be summed up by the young animal's response to the question, "why did you stop?". "My arm was tired" The country has been morally bankrupted by "experts", law makers and handwringers who think they know what is best for us but who have no expertise in the big world outside. Whilst stupid new laws are dreamed up every day, the real crimes have been reduced to virtual misdemeanours. One of the priorities should be to provide a prison place for eveyone who deserves to be in there, including an execution chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Their actions and total lack of feeling or remorse shocked me to the core. I cried when I read the awful things what these two young creatures subjected their young victims And what is shocking me just as much is all the talk of what help and support they should get.... how prison may not be the right place for them to be helped..... how the 'system' has failed them..... .. I just can't talk about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 What I find hard to accept is that the police saying they can?t or won?t prosecute the parents for fear of compromising the anonymity of these kids. What does it matter though because when they?re released as no doubt they will be, they?ll be afforded all sorts of protection from the state including a name change. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 What can they charge the parents with, under current laws? In cases like this, where it's so clearly their fault, I'd like to see them given double whatever their kids get. So ten years each, per child, minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted January 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Apparently they still have other kids too.... I wonder if they are in care or still with the parents? Makes you want to scream doesn't it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Loud and long, Baz. I hope they are in care and somebody's trying to undo the damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 It does Baz. These boys are the result of the abject failure of their parents, and it is they who should be strung up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 Loud and long, Baz. I hope they are in care and somebody's trying to undo the damage. My guess is that the process will be the same as that for the Jamie Bulger murderers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryLightweight Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 What do others think and are the liberal ideas of not smacking and the abolishment of corporal punishment to blame for all this? In a word yes, and much more besides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 What do others think and are the liberal ideas of not smacking and the abolishment of corporal punishment to blame for all this? In a word yes, and much more besides. These boys are not the product of liberal parents. They are the product of parents who belted the hell out of them and each other. They grew up in a world of corporal punishment. How ever can you conclude that they lacked a good hiding to set them straight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Whatever the possible so called underlying reasons for their actions there is NO acceptable excuse WHATSOEVER for their brutal and barbaric attack on the two young lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Loud and long, Baz. I hope they are in care and somebody's trying to undo the damage. My guess is that the process will be the same as that for the Jamie Bulger murderers. You've misread me, Paul. I meant I hope the couple's OTHER kids are in care and being assessed before they turn out the same way. What you do with two boys capable of such pure evil, I really do not know. At least the indefinite sentence offers the option of never letting them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryLightweight Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 What do others think and are the liberal ideas of not smacking and the abolishment of corporal punishment to blame for all this? In a word yes, and much more besides. These boys are not the product of liberal parents. They are the product of parents who belted the hell out of them and each other. They grew up in a world of corporal punishment. How ever can you conclude that they lacked a good hiding to set them straight? I did not conclude that LP you did for me...what I actually meant is that the removal of corporal punishment from this countries seats of learning many years ago has contributed to the decline in society and these kids now think they are 'untouchable', which they pretty much are. The cane never killed anybody nor the size 10 galosher, or the board duster thrown at your head, or the chessboard on your backside, or the knuckle rap, the ear twist and humiliation in front of your classmates...there is no deterrent anymore. You can only blame so much on the parent(s) and/or society, you cant watch your kids 24-7, they are taught right and wrong and the rest is trust that they will behave in a reasonable manner...these kids are monsters and should be locked up forever just like Michael Myers from Halloween and I dont mean in a comfortable room with a tv and a playstation and namby pamby's pandering to their every whim, but that wont happen :/ I know lots of people from broken homes who had tough lives growing up, none of whom are murderers or sadistic torturers or rapists...there is no excuse for what they did and the blame ( in my opinion ) lies solely with them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 What do others think and are the liberal ideas of not smacking and the abolishment of corporal punishment to blame for all this? In a word yes, and much more besides. I didn't conclude anything for you, Larry, you wrote it down yourself. There you are, saying that lack of smacking is to blame for this incident "and much more besides". I agree that lack of DISCIPLINE is to blame for the general decline in standards. Too many selfish parents can't be bothered giving their kids consistent rules and enforcing them. Kids are not learning that unpleasant actions bring unpleasant consequences, so they think they can do as they please. Smacking works fine as an unpleasant consequence, and I've no objection to parents doing it, but so do lots of other things. Nothing works if it's just randomly done according to moods on the day. It's not the smack that magically works, it's giving kids the structure that teaches them to predict the consequences of bad behaviour and motivates them to avoid it. I agree entirely with you that these boys made their own choices and are responsible for what they did. There's no excuse at all and not a lot to say except that they have to be locked up because they are dangerous. I just don't think the parents who moulded them into the monsters they are should get away with their choices and actions. Speaking as a parent, they disgust me every bit as much as their boys do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 LP. You have values. I like that. DISCIPLINE is missing in ALL walks of life and when adults don't set the example and don't enforce the rules so that the problem is not repeated, the world is slowly falling apart. UNTIL the "good" people start commenting and complaining to the people in charge at all levels of society, things will only get worse. People/kids keep pushing the boundaries until there are none left because no-one says NO, they just keep justifying the behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 I have no hesitation in disciplining my kids. I choose not to smack because other things work better. My older kids do not swear in front of the younger ones, and neither do their mates when visiting. They all know that if they do, whether they are mine or not, they will be handed a pair of disposable gloves and a bag and sent to clear the lawn of dog poo. Some things are worse than a slap..... It's a parent's job to turn out decent kids, and I have no patience or tolerance with those who just can't be bothered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 It's a parent's job to turn out decent kids, and I have no patience or tolerance with those who just can't be bothered. Excellent comment On the subject of Doncaster Council, the following might explain the problem: A FOOD factory manager who was put in charge of safeguarding children at the local authority where two brothers tortured two younger boys has admitted being appointed to the role despite not having ?any relevant experience?. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6999961.ece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I've just read that article in full. Words fail me really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 And I guess you also noted the salary that he was paid ?103,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 And the even higher amounts paid to the two buffoons who appointed him when all he knew about was meat pies. The seven dead children since 2004 who were in council care. The fact that he has no interest in this case because that's not his job any more. The 14 years council involvement and 30odd declined chances to intervene with this particular family..... .. and most sickening of all, his reason for taking the job "it was an exciting opportunity". Yes, Paul, I noted it all. Had to read it twice before it all went in. All I could think was that WBC have had some right stick lately, but they have NEVER had a child die on their watch or a Baby P or a case like this one. So where were Ofsted and the red flag people when all this was going on in Doncaster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 In Warrington perhaps LP. PS saw the following in the Mail: An official report on the evil young brothers who tortured two boys does not even name the officials who missed 31 chances to intervene. The crucial omission in the document - which the Government is refusing to release - reinforces fears of an institutional cover-up. Pressure is mounting on Children's Secretary Ed Balls to publish the full 'serious case review' of the case to ensure lessons can be learned. So far only a limited 11-page 'executive summary' on Doncaster's beleaguered care services has been released. But even if the full report is made public, the names of individual social workers and their bosses who failed to act will remain a secret, the Daily Mail has learned. This increases suspicions that no one will be held accountable for the failings. Crucially, the public are unlikely to be told if these social workers are still in positions of responsibility and what punishment they have been given unless the authorities in Doncaster choose to be more open. Previous full 'serious case reviews' - such as the one carried out on Haringey Council's failings in the Baby P case - are known to contain names of social workers. The exact reason for removing the names in this case is unclear. However, the authors of the report, produced by Doncaster Safeguarding Children Board, must have been aware of the adverse publicity surrounding the key individuals at the heart of previous blunders. So far just one mid-ranking official at Doncaster council has been disciplined and no one has been sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 .. and most sickening of all, his reason for taking the job "it was an exciting opportunity". Yes, exciting for his bank balance, actually I think the real reason was the ?103,000............... and the lack of accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'd get excited by ?103,000 a year for doing bog all. Dream job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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