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Eagle
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A damning Uefa report branding Liverpool fans the worst in Europe is to be presented to sports minister Richard Caborn.

 

European football's governing body says there have been more incidents involving Reds supporters than any others.

 

The report is based on the findings of undercover police agents over the last four years.

 

It paints a damning picture of Liverpool fans' behaviour at last month's Champions League final in Athens, which Milan won 2-1.

 

There were violent scenes outside the stadium and inside after many fans gained access with forged tickets - and in some cases no tickets at all.

 

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "The incidents involving Liverpool fans have been well known to us before the trouble at the Champions League final.

 

"That was just the latest example. What other set of fans steal tickets from their fellow supporters or out of the hands of children?

 

"We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there."

 

He went on: "There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

 

Gaillard added: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans."

 

Liverpool have sent their own report to UEFA complaining about lax security measures at the final.

 

The city's Lord Mayor Paul Clark has also hit back in the Liverpool Daily Post.

 

He said: "UEFA appear to be trying to avoid the blame for the disorganisation of the final.

 

"To make matters worse, instead of looking at their own faults UEFA are blaming the people of Liverpool."

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Eagle - the point of the forum is to make a comment - your comment is .....

 

Meanwhile the facts i have heard says the report was ordered by UEFA to concentrate on the activity of so called Liverpool fans. Does it take into account Liverpool have also been involved in more European matches than any other British Club and as other british fans have discovered they are targeted by opposing fans and police.

I suspect UEFA are trying to create a smokescreen to cover up their incompetence at the final.

I know genuine fans who could not get in because anybody basically waiving a fag packet turning up early got in.

UEFA knew there were fake tickets and should have had proper controls to detect them and arrest those selling them openly on the streets.

I realise Liverpool and English fans in general are not all angels but like a say this, in my opinion is UEFA trying to dodge the issue.

:x

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Officialdom is always trying to dodge the issue.

 

Whilst poo-baiting may be the vogue, it is rather out of order in this story, as the people accused are not representing the club.

Probably the same idiots who went to the England games years ago, just looking for a fight.

It's a pity that the people policing these events are not more capable. :roll:

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Originally posted by Gary:

Does it take into account Liverpool have also been involved in more European matches than any other British Club and as other british fans have discovered they are targeted by opposing fans and police.

This isn't a comparison between British clubs, this is a comparison between all European teams involved in European tournaments. If anyone believes that violence is proportional to the number of matches played then Real Madrid would now be banned from Europe. But that is not the case, it was Liverpool and their no mark fans that got all English sides banned.

 

Regarding 'policing' of the latest event, how come the policing of AC Milan fans went without a hitch? :confused:

 

As for 'Probably the same idiots who went to the England games years ago, just looking for a fight.' correct, and probably accounts for the fact that England fans are also the worst behaved in Europe.

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Peter: I could probably accept most of what you say if it was confined to this years final in Athens, but that doesn't take into account the trouble caused by Poo fans in Istanbul 2 years ago, or at Heysel. Can you name any other side that has been banned from Europe,involved in matches where supporters died, and had at least one 'fan' locked up for attempted murder? Sorry but the only common denominater in all of these issues about bad stadiums, bad policing, shortage of tickets, unfair treatment etc etc are the Poo fans. :(

 

[ 05.06.2007, 09:28: Message edited by: Keith R ]

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Keith I am afraid you are obviously bitter and twisted to the extreme on Liverpool fans.

You seem quite happy to condemn us all when it is only the minority who cause problems - just like at any other club.

There are scum bags who follow Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea and just about every other football club in the land going right down to FC United whose supporters cause the most trouble in the none league arena - just doesn't make front page news.

Lets face any incident involving Liverpool makes front page news because they are a big club with a massive fan base across the world.

They also attract the rent a mob brigade who just go out to cause trouble.

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Originally posted by Keith R:

Peter: I could probably accept most of what you say if it was confined to this years final in Athens, but that doesn't take into account the trouble caused by Poo fans in Istanbul 2 years ago, or at Heysel. Can you name any other side that has been banned from Europe,involved in matches where supporters died, and had at least one 'fan' locked up for attempted murder? Sorry but the only common denominater in all of these issues about bad stadiums, bad policing, shortage of tickets, unfair treatment etc etc are the Poo fans. :(

Roma and Galatasary have been all but banned, and the problems occur within the confines of the home city.

 

Liverpool have a problem with a minority of people who travel abroad to cause trouble as they can not get away with it in the UK.

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Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, AC Milan

Arsenal etc etc ALL massive clubs with a massive fan base, none bigger than Man U the biggest club in the world. Compare the history of violence with all those clubs and that of Liverpool.

 

No comparison........forever in your shadow :wink::P

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Originally posted by Peter:

How can you mention Juventus?

Weren't they the mob who had one of them brandishing a gun at the police at the side of the pitch?

Italy have the worst fans and are not condemned like the Brits are. :x

I said
compare the HISTORY of violence
not isolated incidents.

 

I wish you Poo fans would stop putting the blame for your violent history in European and British football at the hands of everyone else apart from yourselves. OK if Italian, German, Dutch etc fans are not condemned, that does not condone the behaviour of Poo fans wherever they travel.

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Bob,you are correct in saying that Liverpool take more supporters into Europe. That is the main problem, not all of them have tickets and the sufferers are their fellow fans. Most of the recent 'headline news' would have been avoided with better organisation from UEFA and a more responsible attitude from the supporters.

The main difference between British fans and other European fans is that Brits cause problems away whilst the others cause problems at home. In most instances where neutral grounds are used the problems are caused by English fans; whilst other teams fans get involved it is always on a greater scale when Liverpool are playing because of the unique mentality of the scousers.

I saw at first hand the 'tribal violence'from the bad old days when football was the excuse to form gangs of thugs. The current stuff is different it is caused by a selfish desire to see the game without regard to authority or consequence.

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Originally posted by Eagle:

In most instances where neutral grounds are used the problems are caused by English fans; whilst other teams fans get involved it is always on a greater scale when Liverpool are playing because of the unique mentality of the scousers.

I saw at first hand the 'tribal violence'from the bad old days when football was the excuse to form gangs of thugs. The current stuff is different it is caused by a selfish desire to see the game without regard to authority or consequence.

Eagle - I can assure you I have been on the receiving end of the United morons being one of a handful of Liverpool fans at Old Trafford.

The United fans were more interested in trying to kill us than watch the game.

I wish everyone could concentrate on the general yob culture which is not restricted just to the capital of culture!

What is needed is proper organisation and proper punishment for those convicted of violence.

There should even be stiffer penalties for abusive behaviour.

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I just want to take a brief peek in here and say that you cannot judge all Liverpool fans by the minority of troublemakers who after all seem to be mostly bent on making their fellow Kopites suffer.

 

Horrific as Heysel was, I never, ever, approved of the Heysel Ban which was an act of vindictiveness, jealousy and hypocrisy. Most of the Liverpool fans were not to blame and Liverpool Football Club were not to blame, and I never favoured any English club, including Liverpool, of being banned. Even if it is true that there is more of a Liverpool problem than with other European teams which I doubt- Galatasary ahem cough cough- remember the Leeds United business in 2000?- my views are not changed. That 1980s ban was particularly cruel on Everton, a magnificent team which should have been allowed to test themselves in the Champions' Cup given that when they won the European Cup-Winners' Cup the week before, their fans' behaviour was impeccable. So while it is true that there are many annoying Liverpool fans around, that alas is the same with any club.

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G'man, I cannot disagree with any of your post but would make slight adjustment to your final comment:-

" So while it is true that there are many annoying Liverpool fans around, that alas is the same with any club."

 

I would amend it to say " Whilst there are many annoying fans involved with any club it is quite obvious that Liverpool have more than their share"

 

I would replace your euphemism 'annoying' with something stronger and also suggest that the number of annoying fans is directly proportional to the success. Bandwagon merchants!

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and now UEFA have apologised, :o so can we please have apologies from those who have vented their spleen on the good name of Liverpool football club and their many loyal and well behaved supporters, who by some small coincidence appear to be posters who support Manchester United. :roll:

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I am not aware of any apology by UEFA - more of a denial by the President, who is simply trying to defuse the situation. As an Evertonian, I am well aware of the trouble that follows reds fans, it is nothing new and has affected my club first hand. United supporters are no angels and in some cases have no right to criticise any other supporters, but the views of those on this thread are entirely correct.

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I don't feel the need to apologise to Liverpool Football club and their many loyal and well behaved supporters since I have never mentioned them.

My posts are aimed at the scallies who by their actions besmirched the good name of the club and these good fans. Generalising,talking majorities and seeking to blame others is taking an ostrich stance; and while your head is in the sand one of your fellow supporters will nick your ticket out of your pocket.

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