Net Zero Rethink

[Bill]

Looks like the government seem ready to rethink the targets for net zero. I think most people expected this to happen given the fact that suppliers couldn’t meet demand and inflation caused folk to think twice about making any changes.

For me this seems the logical thing to do. It’s alright setting ambitious targets but if in time it becomes clear that the targets are unrealistic and unlikely to be met then they need to change. I think the targets were a bit too optimistic in the first place but more importantly, they were set before the war in the Ukraine changed everything.  

The question now I suppose is are these new targets realistic?

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

If we've really hit the iceberg, then the planned evacuation of the ship, needs to be orderly and socially fare,  which the net-zero panic clearly isn't.   It's economically illiterate and suicidal,  it is socially and globally divisive and unfair, and will result in impoverishment for the lower classes while maintaining the affluence of elites.  Our industrial progress as a species owes everything to the availability of cheap energy, and any moves to compromise that will reverse economic growth and wellbeing.  Sunack has recognised that the great unwashed are not prepared to pay with their impoverishment and will result in a political backlash against green cultism, and the nefarious plans of the global elite.  Some of the more absurd aspects of this green panic, are being demonstrated by leftist ideas such as the phasing out of farms and restrictions on the consumption of meat, the restriction on transport systems (principally the ICE car), while the elite and advocates of this new cult, continue to leave a trail of carbon behind their global air miles.   The whole mess needs to be slowed down imo, and a methodical approach adopted that sustains economic wellbeing, whilst allowing for gradual conversion.     😠

[Confused52]

My take is that Labour is more in hock to the Eco-loons than the Tories so Sunak is looking for clear blue water that makes voting Labour too expensive. Provided he tells the zealots in the Conservative party that they need not stand at the next election he may jest get away with it. The epithet "they are all the same" is what he is seeking to change, as well as adding to "It's time for a change" the rider ", but not that one!"

[Observer II]

As part of my current enforced pedestrianisation, aside from the poor state of our pavements, I noticed the large numbers of parked cars in residential areas; which promted the notion, if any Gov thinks it will take these away from the voters, they must be politically suicidal.   😉     

[Bill]

That’s a bit of an extreme view which to me doesn’t make any sense. The decision to ultimately move away from the internal combustion engine is pretty well universal and won’t change irrespective of which party is in power. For sure we seem to be pushing more than some other countries and while some may call it economic suicide, others might see it as setting a good example for the rest of the world. I’d rather be with the lead group rather than dragged kicking and screaming at the back.

In the longer term, I don’t think it’ll make any difference to who owns a car and who doesn’t and it cetainly won't alter the number of cars on the road. The price of new electric and hybrid cars like for like is higher than ICE but all that’ll happen is that people will choose a car style and brand that suits their pocket. And if a new car is out of reach then there’s bucket loads of cheap second-hand electric cars for sale right now, and probably for less than you could spend on a mobility scoter.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

I would rather be at the back, leading by example is an indulgence we should not make the public pay for. When the markets for electric vehicle are well formed the costs will be lower, people need to choose vehicles to suite their own needs and aspirations and not what someone else thinks is all they deserve. Would the "do-gooders" have endorsed your Alfa when you wanted it if the new regime applied then?

[Observer II]

Interesting you mention "the rest of the World" Bill, just how will the likes of China, India and Russia, be "dragged kicking and screaming" on anything that adversely affects their national interests ?  We've already got Europe en route to an economic and fiscal disaster as a result of Ukraine, I doubt the Brics Nations will be in the queue for that.   You complacency is laughable,  the notion that in an era of folk struggling to afford food and heating, that they will have the money to afford EVs is a joke.       

[Bill]

If anyone can’t afford to eat then the last thing they’d be doing is going out to buy a new car whether it’s electric or not. New cars are expensive, but that doesn’t mean people will be forced off the road as you suggest, unless they’re too stupid to consider buying second hand like most people do.

Like it or not, this eco stuff is going to happen but pushing back the deadline for me was the right thing to do as it gives more time for the technology to evolve and for manufactures to get their act together. The greens won’t like it, but if nothing else, it brings us into line with other European countries.

Now here’s a thought. When we were told that we’d have to change our lightbulbs I didn’t like the idea because they were expensive, and I didn’t particularly like the light they provided. These days they’re the norm and nobody would dream of going back to tungsten and I think it’ll be just the same with EVs.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Errm, no Bill;  they won't be buying "new" cars, but trying to keep their old one's on the road as long as possible, as we did in the 50s and 60s.   They certainly won't be buying EVs, which will suck their home energy dry.  I keep hearing the naive advocates of net zero, talking about investment in "green energy", which at the moment relies on sunshine and wind, and will not produce the quantity or reliabilty of cheap energy to sustain our industries or domestic use.  Meanwhile, China are making the windmills for us, supplied by coal fired cheap energy, and they must be laughing all the way to the bank.  😉

[Bill]

 

If they’re keeping their old cars going what’s the problem? If it eventually gives up the ghost then they don’t have to just get a new expensive car they just get another old one. |That’s how it works now and there’ll still be cheap petrol cars around 25 years or more from now.

EVs and hybrids will though eventually become the norm and begin filtering through to the second-hand market for those who can’t afford new. And rather than sucking the grid dry, I predict that they’ll eventually become an integral part of it, by charging off peak and effectively selling back at times of peak demand. Octopus Energy offers this capability right now, so the next time you boil your kettle, think on, it might be coming from someone’s EV. 😊

Anyway, enough of bloody cars. I've only had my new one for a week and someones hit my rear bumper and made a right mess. Grrrrrrr!!! 😠

 

Bill 😊

[Steve the Original]

I have read about Rishi and he plans and i have one Word for it all

 

B*LL*CKS

(Sorry Gary)

[Observer II]

He's actually brought us inline with Germany and the EU.

[Lt Kije]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:59 AM, Observer II said:

Errm, no Bill;  they won't be buying "new" cars, but trying to keep their old one's on the road as long as possible, as we did in the 50s and 60s.   They certainly won't be buying EVs, which will suck their home energy dry.  I keep hearing the naive advocates of net zero, talking about investment in "green energy", which at the moment relies on sunshine and wind, and will not produce the quantity or reliabilty of cheap energy to sustain our industries or domestic use.  Meanwhile, China are making the windmills for us, supplied by coal fired cheap energy, and they must be laughing all the way to the bank.  😉

Green energy is now cheaper than fosil fuels Obs, and the more people that get it it will get even cheaper, solar panels just need light, they don't need direct sunlight, you are behind the science Obs

[Observer II]

It's not cheaper, it's subsidised.    

[Lt Kije]

34 minutes ago, Observer II said:

It's not cheaper, it's subsidised.    

nuclear is subsidised, coal was subsidised before Maggie got rid of it, gas power stations built in the 80s and 90s were subsidised, when the subsidies stopped we stopped building new power stations, did you not know

[Observer II]

Is that why we pay an addition on our energy bills, to support "green energy" ?    Wake up ffs.     

[Lt Kije]

On 9/23/2023 at 9:28 PM, Observer II said:

Is that why we pay an addition on our energy bills, to support "green energy" ?    Wake up ffs.     

Obs the subsidy to build gas power stations came as a bung from central government for each power station built!!, you as a taxpayer still paid for it through taxes, Nuclear power generation was massively subsidised by the government, which in the late 40 and 50s was making bombs, power generation came out of that, just because it doesn't appear on your bill, does not mean its not subsidised 

[Confused52]

17 minutes ago, Lt Kije said:

Obs the subsidy to build gas power stations came as a bung from central government for each power station built!!, you as a taxpayer still paid for it through taxes, Nuclear power generation was massively subsidised by the government, which in the late 40 and 50s was making bombs, power generation came out of that, just because it doesn't appear on your bill, does not mean its not subsidised 

What was the subsidy because as I remember it the dash for gas was led by unbundling, privatisation and the cost of gas from the North Sea. Generator were also forced forced to reduce the amount of coal by the Large Power Directive causing extra cost to solve the dubious acid rain problem. There were market reasons for dumping Coal which didn't require a bung, what am I not remembering?

[Lt Kije]

I didn't say dumping coal required a bung, I said the private sector building gas fired power stations did, and they got all kinds of bungs from tax breaks to actual bungs, such as the car industry are getting now for building electric cars in the UK

[Observer II]

So green EV production is being propped up by the taxpayer then ?   😉

[Lt Kije]

On 9/25/2023 at 11:03 PM, Observer II said:

So green EV production is being propped up by the taxpayer then ?   😉

In a way, but the government are paying bungs to the car industry in order to keep them here after brexit, as most cars made in the UK go to the EU, come on Obs you new that

[Observer II]

You mean we actually export to the EU, after Brexit ?   😀

[Lt Kije]

3 hours ago, Observer II said:

You mean we actually export to the EU, after Brexit ?   😀

Yes because the government pay cash to the car industry, which you already know about, but sadly even the bungs are not enough, if you read reports JLR and Nissan will be the only manufacturers left over here in the next 5 years, take a look at the decline since Brexit on the number of cars manufactured in the UK

[Observer II]

Well, in your net-zero world, we won't need cars in any case.    😄

[Lt Kije]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:49 PM, Observer II said:

Well, in your net-zero world, we won't need cars in any case.    😄

Is that it, your opinion on the decline of our car industry and associated  jobs, another brexit bonus