Windows 11

[Bill]

A couple of weeks back my laptop decided to die on me, so I ended up with a new Lenovo running on Windows 11. It’s never great when your forced to change to a new operating system and as usual, I have to say that I don’t really like it. But to be fair, the move from Windows 10 to 11 doesn’t seem quite as traumatic as some of the previous changes once some of the crazy new features like “snap” are disabled. I think these days it makes sense to have the most up to date system for both security and speed.

Just when I thought I was getting used to it, the technology threw a spanner in the works when my little smart meter display unit stubbornly refused to connect on the USB com port. It’d seemed a bit temperamental over the past two weeks that I’ve had it but now it’s stuck with the last code I downloaded, and that’s partially broken. ☹ Googling the problem, it seems this is entirely a Windows 11 driver issue that’s been known about for some time where two control lines are changing at precisely the same time instead of one slightly before the other. There’s no patch for this yet, and the only option is to revert to Windows 10 or do a bit of microsurgery on the display which with my eyesight would be tricky.

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

I'll wait for window 12 then in that case........

windows 7 seems to be the stablest one i have used. windows 10 totally screwed up my laptop after two updates.

as all my programs are run under windows 7 i would have to either update the lot, expensive, or try and see if they will run in compatibility mode, fiddly at best.

office  is now a yearly subscription i have been told where it was originally a lifetime cost, lifetime being the lifetime of the software.

[Bill]

Laptops don’t last forever and at some point, you’ll need a new one, so you’ll have to bite the bullet and get used to the newer systems. On the plus side, new machines boot up in seconds and everything runs like greased lightning. I was fortunate that I have access to a shared Microsoft account so it didn’t cost me anything extra but if you don’t want to pay, I’d bet that there are quite a few freebies out there that could do a half decent job.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

16 hours ago, Bill said:

A couple of weeks back my laptop decided to die on me, so I ended up with a new Lenovo running on Windows 11. It’s never great when your forced to change to a new operating system and as usual, I have to say that I don’t really like it. But to be fair, the move from Windows 10 to 11 doesn’t seem quite as traumatic as some of the previous changes once some of the crazy new features like “snap” are disabled. I think these days it makes sense to have the most up to date system for both security and speed.

Just when I thought I was getting used to it, the technology threw a spanner in the works when my little smart meter display unit stubbornly refused to connect on the USB com port. It’d seemed a bit temperamental over the past two weeks that I’ve had it but now it’s stuck with the last code I downloaded, and that’s partially broken. ☹ Googling the problem, it seems this is entirely a Windows 11 driver issue that’s been known about for some time where two control lines are changing at precisely the same time instead of one slightly before the other. There’s no patch for this yet, and the only option is to revert to Windows 10 or do a bit of microsurgery on the display which with my eyesight would be tricky.

 

Bill 😊

Bill I don't think the Windows Driver Model has changed so you ought to be able to "update" to the older Windows 10 driver on the USB device using Device Manager. You should also be able to use compatibility mode of the app that talks to the driver (found on the properties tab in Explorer and the Compatibility Tab). I expect that you have tried this already, but I add it just in case.

[Bill]

Here's a link showing the problems that others are experiencing.

https://github.com/espressif/esptool/issues/706

Of course it could be that my module’s i/o has quite simply gone faulty especially given it’s probably been plugged in and out over a hundred times. I’m going to order another just in case, but in the meantime at least it’s working and displaying my power reading albeit a bit jerky at times.

 

Bill

[Confused52]

Interesting, do I understand then that you are using ESPtool to bootload into a homebrew ESP32 Arduino based meter via a windows derived RS232 link starting as a Virtual COM port (so VCP drivers) on Windows 11. What I was suggesting related to the Comport USB device and its drivers since the problem reported appeared to be anomalous behaviour on the control signals. My understanding is the DTR low says arduino here, RTS low(active) says comport wants to send data and CTS low says arduino can accept serial data. The traces show RTS low being upside down. Now RTS comes from the Windows hardware (USB com port) and not the Arduino. This ties in with the driver change so it still suggests manually reverting the driver. The python code in ESPtool hasn't changed. nor has any of the hardware. So it rather points to a faulty driver. Do you know what the chip in the USB com port is from the USB attributes data in Win11 device manager?

Added later:

The programs to put in compatibility mode would presumably be python.exe and pythonw.exe for the 3.x version for the ESPtool to interact with windows.

[Bill]

I understand the basics of the comms handshaking but reading up on this it looks far too involved for a person like me. There seems to be a lot of more capable people than me with this problem, some claiming to have found a solution that works for them while others say the same didn’t work for them. I’m inclined to believe that given that the lines appear to be changing simultaneously rather than slightly staggered, something like stray capacitance could cause a nano second’s difference which might be the difference between it working or not.

If this is the case, the speed of execution might be playing some part. In my case I didn’t just upgrade to Win11, I changed to a faster I5 machine. None of the reports mentioned whether they had simply upgraded or moved to Win11 with a new and faster machine.???  

Just to clarify, I normally purchase ESP devices and build my own boards, but in this instance though, it’s a just ready-made display module using the same processor. The ESPtool will have been written by the chip manufacturer Espressif and this piece of code is used in all the various IDEs including Arduino.

My setup uses three discrete processors all linked by a virtual wifi mesh. The first unit is buried away and measures the power flow at the meter. This is then sent to the main control that’s located in the garage where most of the work is done. It was a bit of a pain having to go into the garage and try to see what was happening on a tiny display, so I added this larger and more colourful display that I could see from the comfort of the house.

I’ve just tested the other two units and they both download perfectly which leads me to believe my issue is more likely hardware related. I’ve been coding on the kitchen table then moving the display to the other end of the room where the signal is stronger. I’ve done this so many times I’ve probably damaged the micro usb connector.   

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

Bill,

Since it looks from the fault reports as if you may be using a CP210 based USB dongle on Win 11 it may be worth looking at a recent release of USB driver

In the fixes it says:

MCUSW-532    | Fix Automatic handshaking on RTS/CTS, and driver buffers       
             | overran at high baud rate.                                     

 

The drivers were released as CP210x Universal Windows Driver

v11.2.0 10/21/2022

Apologies if it is the wrong driver.

 

[Bill]

Ironically the little antenna that I was waiting for turned on Sunday. If I’d have had this from the start, I wouldn’t have had to keep plugging the thing in and out and the usb connector wouldn’t have broken.

With the antenna connected, the signal now reaches the kitchen table where I do my programming, but I can’t do any of that now until the replacement module arrives from China. Just hope they’ve not put it on one of their slow boats. 😊

 

Meanwhile I’m going to use the broken unit and try to test fit everything into a small plastic case that hopefully will look acceptable to Mrs Green.  

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

It looks very neat. Hope it all fits and stays. I guess that is the display with the spinning disc and white rotating edge mark you mentioned earlier. Very impressive.

[Bill]

Ey up. My display wasn’t broken after all. I’d simply managed to put it into a mode where I had to press the reset button to restore it to normal use. But what I thought was the reset button turned out to be something else and the button I really needed was tiny and hidden away on the underside of the display.

Apparently if you send anything over the serial port for debugging, the port remains in an output only mode, so it won’t accept a download until physically reset. That’s a bit of who flung dung logic and it’s not surprising so many are struggling getting this device to work. Nice product though, compact and well-made but zero info on what’s what and of how to use it.

Ah well, if I blow it up now, at least I’ve got another one on its way from China.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

29 minutes ago, Bill said:

Ey up. My display wasn’t broken after all. I’d simply managed to put it into a mode where I had to press the reset button to restore it to normal use. But what I thought was the reset button turned out to be something else and the button I really needed was tiny and hidden away on the underside of the display.

Apparently if you send anything over the serial port for debugging, the port remains in an output only mode, so it won’t accept a download until physically reset. That’s a bit of who flung dung logic and it’s not surprising so many are struggling getting this device to work. Nice product though, compact and well-made but zero info on what’s what and of how to use it.

Ah well, if I blow it up now, at least I’ve got another one on its way from China.

 

Bill 😊

Good news though, have fun.

[Evil Sid]

perhaps you should do a video explaining this bill, who knows you could be an internet influencer overnight....🤔

Surprising where they hide those reset buttons.

The oddest one i came across was on a chinese phone that my brother got from ebay or some other such place.

It came up with a message saying reset.

He spent half a n hour looking for it before calling me.

Ii spent an hour trying to find it both on the phone and the internet.

It turns out it was under the battery, you had t take the battery  out to press the reset button..... er yes that worked a treat. needless to say that one was binned.

[Confused52]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:24 AM, Evil Sid said:

I'll wait for window 12 then in that case........

windows 7 seems to be the stablest one i have used. windows 10 totally screwed up my laptop after two updates.

as all my programs are run under windows 7 i would have to either update the lot, expensive, or try and see if they will run in compatibility mode, fiddly at best.

office  is now a yearly subscription i have been told where it was originally a lifetime cost, lifetime being the lifetime of the software.

Sid,

Office is available as a subscription (Office 365) but Word, Excel and Powerpoint latest versions are also still available for outright purchase. Buy Office Home & Student 2021 (PC or Mac) – Download & Pricing (microsoft.com) You can download it after the initial purchase date but not after the end of support unless you find how to buy a backup disc. It is only due to be supported for 5 years.

[Evil Sid]

I am one of those people who work on the principal if it works don't break it or should that be don't fix it.

office 2007 does what i need it to do. a bit of word processing, some use of excel mainly for the bowls. a very small use of publisher when the muse to write poetry and put it in the booklets strikes,the rest of the office suit it self doesn't get used.

gone are the days when i need to present a power point presentation or update a database for work, no longer have to manage a project office

photo shop 7 is sufficient to mess about with the various photo's and serves my requirements well enough.

all other software is just odds and ends that i have acquired over the years, file converters and photo adjustment from the various printers.

I am at the age now that i use a computer for amusement rather than for any thing serious.

i am aware that there are a few office equivalents floating around that are free to use and will do just about everything that the microsoft version will do. so for now i will wait patiently until microsoft get their act together and produce a definitive operating system or until i peg it,

no bets on which will come first....

[Lt Kije]

I’m very happy with Apple, never any problems😎

[Evil Sid]

after going over to windows ten a year back all was fine. the problem i have at present is that i had to replace my mother board after something went pop. i took the opportunity to replace the cpu and added  more memory.

everything still works but windows 10 cannot be activated and keeps putting a message in the corner telling me to activate it.

the problem is that because it was set up on my hard drive with the old motherboard it will not "recognise" my new board as "legitimate".

to get it to do that i would need to do a "clean" install of windows ten and then re-establish all the drivers and software.

something i may do over the inter months if i can find enough space on my hard drive. if not then i may have to get a bigger drive and figure out how to transfer the old drive over to it. ssd drives are quite cheap these days and may be the way to go.

[Bill]

If you need to change over to solid drive it might be worth remembering that I have access to a copying device that will move everything from an old disc to a new one. I used it when I got this new laptop and it did the job perfectly. I’m sure the lads down at the office would jump at the chance of helping you with it and given they’re always changing and upgrading drives, you might end up with a bigger faster drive for nowt.  

 

Bill 😊

[Evil Sid]

might take you up on that when i get the car sorted.

just checked the 'c' drive and it is a 250 gb with about 50gb free.

the second drive that is in is only 150 gb and i have no idea where that came from probably out of an old dvd recorder knowing me..

this new mother board supports sata 3 so moving over to an ssd would not be to hard apart from copying the old drive over.

[Confused52]

Sid the internet has lots of stuff on how to recover from situations like yours. However the big problem may be that the original key is tied to hardware. How did you get Win 10 and what was the machine that broke? On some OEM machines the key is on the mother board and the OS dies with the motherboard. If it is a retail key it may be incorrectly suspended on hardware grounds and a call to Microsoft should get them to unlock it if you explain that the motherboard died and you only have a copy on one machine. If the old key can't be used you will still be able to buy a retail key to activate windows 10 without rebuilding. I would do that before taking up Bill's offer of changing to an SSD.

[Evil Sid]

the windows 10 i got from Microsoft at the time and used the windows seven key to activate it.  it may well be the hardware as that version of windows ten was set up with the old mother board.

the laptop was done at the same time and has no problems with the activation using the win7 key so may well be the new board needs a different key. a retail key costs more than the mother board cost me.

i need more space on my 'c' drive as it seems to have filled up quite quickly since i moved over to windows 10. i think it still has a windows 7 partition that is protected storage  from when it was originally built in 2011.

i have looked online and ssd drives seem to be the norm these days in most suppliers sites the 'old' drives seem to be being phased out, or at least it seems that way to me. they have also come down in price a lot with a 1tb drive being around the £65 mark

to copy my old drive is a case of using a couple of programs and a usb stick but would not solve the activation thing, which is not that big a deal, just slightly annoying to see the message watermarked onto the screen.

[Confused52]

The crux of the matter is whether that Windows 7 key came bundled with a system from an OEM manufacturer such as Dell or HP. I that case it will be an OEM key which only applies to the hardware in which it is installed and its validity dies with the motherboard. It sounds as if you are talking yourself into a full rebuild. There is another matter which you might consider and that is upgrading to Windows 11. If your system is built such that it uses the old Master Boot Record method of booting the system it will not have the secure disc and GPT boot which is all that Windows 11 supports. If you do get Win10 activated it will tell you that it cannot upgrade to 11 unless you change it. There is a program to convert between MBR and GPT but I haven't tried it and I am stuck in Win10 presently. If you are interested I will tell you how I get on.

[Evil Sid]

the pc was built to suit my needs at the time and was a bespoke pc. running i think xp. it was then upgraded to windows 7 and recently to windows 10 and was working fine. 

it was only after replacing the motherboard and chip that windows 10 started sending me this message.

i did download windows 10 from teh web but it would not let me use the windows key i have to activate it.

so i assume that the original motherboard had some sort of activation code to it.

the laptop is fine and does not have that message and was upgraded to windows 10 the same way.

[Confused52]

So the copy of Windows 7 was not bundled with the PC. Was the upgrade automatic with windows telling  you a key or did you buy a retail copy of windows 7 complete with a real windows key? If it is the latter you should just be able to ring Microsoft and tell when what they want to know and they should unblock the windows 7 key.

 

[Evil Sid]

the windows was installed by the people who built the pc and was windows 7 home premium 64 bit.

the product activation key is on a sticker at the rear of the pc.

 i may even have a windows 7 disk somewhere but it could be for the laptop.

i do have a windows ten disk made when i dowloaded it from the microsoft website prior to the motherboard going pop which may be an option to try when things settle down a bit more. 

one of the reasons that i wanted to upgrade my hard drive was that to reload the windows 10 from the disk i need more room on the disk drive as it says that i don't have sufficient space.

i am in no rush though as almost everything on windows is working as it should just one or two things that it will not let me do which is no hardship as it is things like change backgrounds which i can get around by setting a picture of whatever colour i prefer.