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Hitler Rants About The Councils Attitude To Our Historic Buildings


algy
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Glad you folk are happy with it as I'm limited to what I can cover (as Dizz pointed out) and there is so much that has gone from the town, thankfully it doesn't take me as long to put together as I made a reference doc. with every speech duration and just fill in each slot with dialogue.

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I remember the Bay Horse but fail to under stand why it was so important or the villa, which I don't..

 

The Plague house refered to the video and the Old Packet House, did a breath search but found nothing, anyone fill me in please. Also was going to ask this in history but why was orford hall demolished, why was a third of Walton Hall demolished and when, Bewsey old hall, is that only half of a house, looks odd  to me and not at all statly.

 

O Algy so Funny!! But please do not compare orangutans  to polotticians, orangutans are highly intelligent.

 

What is the original film?

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Coffee,

 

the villa was one of the oldest buildings left in the town (dating back to the 1700's I believe.... Bewsey Old Hall; like Walton Hall were much much bigger in their heyday... no idea why Orford Hall was demolished but there are a few gateposts I think left around Orford Park (which formed part of the grounds) There were some great photos on a board in the offices when they were building the new sports complex

 

 

The original film is a German made film called "Der Untergang" (Apparently translates as "The Downfall") A good film and the guy playing Hitler is very very good. I downloaded it when it came out.... very good, but obviously with subtitles (and not the Algy ones!)

 

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Coffee,

 

the villa was one of the oldest buildings left in the town (dating back to the 1700's I believe.... Bewsey Old Hall; like Walton Hall were much much bigger in their heyday... no idea why Orford Hall was demolished but there are a few gateposts I think left around Orford Park (which formed part of the grounds) There were some great photos on a board in the offices when they were building the new sports complex

 

 

The original film is a German made film called "Der Untergang" (Apparently translates as "The Downfall") A good film and the guy playing Hitler is very very good. I downloaded it when it came out.... very good, but obviously with subtitles (and not the Algy ones!)

 

 

Thanks, downloaded the film, will try and get to watch it sometime soon

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Dizz, I have no idea if the villa was listed and I have no way of finding out!. I believe it's name was Beech House and at one time was owned by James Edelsten who may have started his pin manufactury close by in a small shop in St John street, prior to moving to Latchford?.

 

Coffee, the Bay Horse and a group of three cottages were all demolished without planning consent in February 2005. The local authority was prosecuted and the firm responsible were fined £8,000 per listed building and costs, amounting to a total of £16,500. The Bay Horse (Landlord - Thomas Paul) first appears in the Pigott's1819 directory. It would have been a public house much frequented by traders and people attending the Horse Market at that time.

 

The excellent photos of The Bay horse and Packet House were provided by Graz another Forum member.

 

BayHorse_zps492ba2b6.jpg

 

The (Old) Packet House more recently given the dubious name 'Tiger Too' was the as it's name suggests where travellers could obtain their tickets and obtain sustenance prior to starting their journey by 'packet' boat on the Mersey to Liverpool or Manchester, the Inn building is situated at the bottom of Bridge street at the corner with Mersey Street and was in existance in 1851 as it appears on a town map of that year.

Packet-House_zpse131c979.jpg

 

Walton hall in it's original state.

WaltonHall_zps7a3c80e8.jpg

 

Waltonhallgardens2_zpsd30a0c09.jpg

 

Bewsey Hall in it's original state

BewseyHall_zpsb4e1b084.jpg

 

BewseyOldHall_zpsade57259.jpg

 

Orford Hall. (originally called Norris Hall, built for the Le Norris family in the 13th century).

The Hall was formerly the residence of Thomas Blackburne in 1638, his grandson John Ireland. Blackburne, Esq 1694 - 1786., the famous horticulturist and botanist, amongst other botanical achievements he was the first person to cultivate the pinapple in this country. Orford Hall was also well known for its outstanding collection of rare plants, trees and unusual animals

Ultimately the property descended to Colonel Robert Ireland Blackburn, who in 1916 allowed the hall and 18 acres of surrounding parkland to be gifted to Warrington Council as a War Memorial. The park opened to the public the following year and a bowling green was added in 1924. The house itself, however, was allowed to deteriorate to the point where it was not financially viable to be restored and it was demolished in 1935.

OrfordHallConservertory_zpse30b228f.jpg

 

OrfordHallEastFront_zpsdccdcccf.jpg

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i guess it is my fault this is not in history, but thanks for the reply.

 

Told was in the process of being listed, someone called it mrs browns house, anyone know why

 

The same thing happened with the building on where Apple Court now stands, was it a DIY store and a old cinema, or have I got it wrong?4

 

Bay horse, i can only recall it standing on its own, so guess the contractors must have made a mistake on at least two occasions. These mistakes happen a lot in the property development industry, especially with trees.

 

The Packet House has recently been sold has it not, seen lights on in the building.

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Coffee,

 

the villa was one of the oldest buildings left in the town (dating back to the 1700's I believe....

Dizz, I have no idea if the villa was listed and I have no way of finding out!. I believe it's name was Beech House and at one time was owned by James Edelsten who may have started his pin manufactury close by in a small shop in St John street, prior to moving to Latchford?.

Do you have a map to show where it was Algy ? (I know from your video it says it was on Howard Street but I'm not sure where you mean)

 

When was the villa demolished Baz/Algy ?

 

If it dated back to the 1700's like Baz says then, providing it survived in anything like it's original condition, English Heriatage WOULD have listed it (providing they actually knew about it of course and someone bothered to bring it to their attention ).

 

Anything pre 1700 usually gets listed these days as do most thing dating between 1700 and 1840 too based in the same critera above ie 'surviving in anything like their original condition'... I think that can just include the facade where internal changed have messed them up over the years )

 

All irrelevant of course as that one has gone now as have many others but maybe a starting block to ensure that more do not go the same way.

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Dizz, on reflection perhaps this last reply of mine should be in the history section?, sup' to you my lovely!.

 

Up to you Algy and I can move your pics if you want me to....

 

......but seeing as though this topic is about past and present attitudes and/or indifference towards some of Warrington's historic buildings etc then seeing actual pictures of some that have been already been lost seems more than fitting to the topic in my opinion as does posting images of some that may soon go the same way.

 

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Do you have a map to show where it was Algy ? (I know from your video it says it was on Howard Street but I'm not sure where you mean)

 

When was the villa demolished Baz/Algy ?

 

If it dated back to the 1700's like Baz says then, providing it survived in anything like it's original condition, English Heriatage WOULD have listed it (providing they actually knew about it of course and someone bothered to bring it to their attention ).

 

Anything pre 1700 usually gets listed these days as do most thing dating between 1700 and 1840 too based in the same critera above ie 'surviving in anything like their original condition'... I think that can just include the facade where internal changed have messed them up over the years )

 

All irrelevant of course as that one has gone now as have many others but maybe a starting block to ensure that more do not go the same way.

 

From the warrington Guardian -Thursday, 17 January 2002

 

THE demolition of a listed building in Warrington town centre has sparked anger among conservationists.

An old Georgian house, situated at 31A, Winwick Street - at the back of the former American Pool Centre - was pulled down in November to the astonishment of architecture lovers, who assumed that its future was secure as it had been recognised as a structure of national importance and given listed status.

Harry Wells, chairman of Warrington Civic Society, said: "As far as I'm aware, an agreement was entered into to restore the building with English Heritage, to make it an area of conservation.

"This would have ensured some extensive restoration work, but instead the building has been reduced to rubble."

In a statement, Warrington Borough Council said that the building had been demolished on public safety grounds, as a matter of urgency and without a planning application having been submitted.

It continued: "A planning application was not submitted given the urgency and, under the circumstances, the owner submitted a statement addressing all the issues as required by the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990."

But Mr Wells added: "That side of town is giving rise to a number of new retail developments and this building was probably seen as inconvenient in the face of potential commercial activity.

"This public safety clause is, in my opinion, a loophole in the planning regulations and the buildings control people should have liaised with the planning committee before making a final decision.

"The building, formerly called the Beech House, has a rich history and was previously lived in by the Edelston family, who worked in the pin-making trade.

"In the last few years, the front of the premises was used as an American pool parlour, while the building remained empty."

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You'll have to edit your video now Algy or you will confuse the powers that be :wink:

 

Thanks for the info I know the one you mean now.  It was opposite the other three Grade II listed buildings that were also demolished without consent in 2005 (ie Bay Horse and 2 attached listed cottages).  Clearly all in the way 'allegidely of course'

 

Who owned Beech House at the time any idea ? It looks a bit of a mess in that picture though with the back end boarded up and not how I imagined it to look.  Probably like that to keep people out though I guess. 

 

Sooo…..If the owner of a listed building simply leaves it until it's in a 'dangerous' condition it can just be knock it down then it seems. ????   Crikey no wonder so many are just left alone to rot :(

 

Beech House was only Grade II listed in 1983 which is quite late as a lot were done in the mid 70's (I just looked, 31a Winwick Street) no particular mention of it being in a bad state but not sure they would put that anyway. 

 

Surely (if the council didn't own it though) they still had a statutory duty to ensure that the actual owner of the listed building didn't allow it get into such a serious state where it suddenly needed immediate demolition (if of course if was/did.. it's not like anyone could check once it had gone eh).

 

I always though they were put on the English Heritage's 'at risk register' if they got that bad but clearly not.

 

Shame but nowt anyone can do about it now.

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