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I'm sorry Peter but the way I see it is that an NVQ shows you are able to do a job rather than just being good at passing exams. I know a lot of people in my own field who are brilliant academically and theoretically but who fail in the practicalities. I'll bet there are people out there with university egrees who would fail to get an NVQ at making a Big Mac :D:D

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Having a NVQ shows that you have been told how to do a job, it is not a measure how how well you are doing it. This measure comes from on the job assessment.

An NVQ is virtually impossible to fail.

 

Example from NVQ for the retail trade.

 

Page 32.

Legislation for the Sale of Alcohol requests that proof of age is required to be shown at POS(point of sale) if staff doubt the age of a customer. Passport, Driving License (with photo) and a Proof of Age card meet the criteria.

Page 33.

Q4. Give three accepted methods of Proof of Age.

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Originally posted by asperity:

I'm sorry Peter but the way I see it is that an NVQ shows you are able to do a job rather than just being good at passing exams. I know a lot of people in my own field who are brilliant academically and theoretically but who fail in the practicalities. I'll bet there are people out there with university egrees who would fail to get an NVQ at making a Big Mac :D:D

Surely the practicalities are hands-on learning, rather than paperwork.

I have also known University Graduates who had the piece of paper, but were useless in their job.

Which is what NVQ's do, and this is also happening in schoo;s and colleges where they learn how to pass an exam, producing people who are "less" than Jack of all trades.

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Hmmm, I know what you mean but I've not had to get a job "then" prove I can do it.

 

What I have done twice in two different roles is "proven" how I have "progressed" and "developed" and how "competant" I am in area's needed. Yes I was quite able to do the jobs when I got them but we all learn on the job, develope new skills, jobs change as we do them, we take on new responsibilities, sometimes awarded with pay rises.

 

Also once you have proved the above your more eligible for posts of a simliar type of a higher level / responsibility.

 

Some employers grade pay so you may start a post at a certain level then have to reach a certain level of compentency to reach your next incriment, this does happen with the Council.

 

My current post and my previous post is and was in no way the same as the one I applied for and I have developed considerably and learnt a great deal and now I have the NVQs, I've got it on paper how far I've come as it were and no other qualification other than a vocational one can do that I think.

 

I've worked and do work with people who have left college etc, part of my role is training and educating Care Managers, tis a laugh a minute....... :roll:

 

PS - Eagle - apart from having been given a job spec I've had to use my initiative, skills and common sense, identfiy are's where I need training etc my self , its a long long long time since I had to be told what to do when I get into work part from the Councils Corporate Objectives of course, I manage myself / my own work load as it were, the only reason I cant do anything higher at NVQ is because I have a specialised role for which there is no level 4, that is why we are looking to Higher Education now.

 

[ 05.02.2008, 14:01: Message edited by: Tilly ]

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I have been involved with NVQ's since they were intoduced into the care field (don't have any myself as have my nursing qualification) and the idea behind them back then was to recognise what skills were needed, what skills people already had- and to recognise those skills- and to then plug the gaps with training.

 

They were then portable as an employee could leave one workplace apply to another and in theory prove what they were capable of. Very useful for someone who left school with no qualifications but were excellent at the job they took on!

 

The problem we found was that targets became introduced and assessing became a bit of a joke with some being more concerned with getting targets met than ensuring quality of the assessment.

 

However having said that I know many people who went on to complete (not pass because the key is COMPETENCE in their job ) their NVQ's and who are worthy of them.

 

Remember some jobs are not about passing exams especially in the care field. I prefer to work with some-one who can DO the job rather than WRITE about it

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There you go Peter, people who actually have experience of NVQs and know what they are talking about. As I said there are people who are capable of passing exams and people who are capable of doing the job (and demonstrating that with NVQs) but they aren't necessarily the same people. :wink::wink::wink:

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Asperity,

Are you really saying that to be in command of your ship, that you assess (by NVQ) what skills you are short of and then take the appropriate NVQ to do the job?(As Tilly suggests?

 

Somehow, I don't think so.

 

The problem is that these firms/people whgo think that NVQ's are a good idea, have probably never learned the old way of on the job training.

Perhaps this is why standards have fallen to the level they have because people are assessing themselves. :roll:

PS. Tilly, I am generalising.

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I would say that my career progression could be likened to NVQ even if it wasn't formally called that. This is because I have had "on the job" training coupled with college courses and formal written and oral examinations in order to attain my Certificate of Competency as Master. I still have training courses to go on in order to improve the skills I have. Nobody knows everything and we can all improve ourselves. And if they want to formalise the improvement and call it an NVQ with a piece of paper attesting to the improvement what's wrong with that? :confused: :confused:

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I was caught 'on the job' during my training, but I didn't get an NVQ for it. I think it was called an STD in those days. :wink:

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Peter, some employers are poor and dont value NVQ's or anything and do get it all wrong and give the rest a bad name, I think some just want the funding and are wanting the Investing In People status buit aren't always really committed althoguh I thought the criteria for that was quite tight. AM an Asperity make some very good points :wink:

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Tilly.

Nice to see you posting at the weekend. :wink:

As with most things these days, it's all about ticking Whitehall's boxes.

But if you are happy, who am I to argue?

 

Just curious as to why standards have dropped over the last 15 years or more? :confused:

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You beat me to it Dismayed :wink:

 

"Teenagers will be able to gain a hair and beauty diploma - worth 3 1/2 A-levels - without even cutting any hair.

 

The course states that teenagers "will NOT be technically competent" even after studying the vocational qualification for up to four years."

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If you actually read the article it does say that to become qualified the students must gain NVQs, so the "qualification" you're complaining about isn't an NVQ. :D:D

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Originally posted by asperity:

If you actually read the article it does say that to become qualified the students must gain NVQs, so the "qualification" you're complaining about isn't an NVQ. :D:D

but the report did say

 

The course states that teenagers "will NOT be technically competent" even after studying the vocational qualification for up to four years.
So guess that's a VQ and not an NVQ then :P

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To work as hairdressers or beauty therapists, they must go on to take further vocational qualifications such as NVQs.

 

 

Dismayed this is what the article states. Don't shoot the messenger. :D:D

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I wasn't shooting anyone Asperity.. havent we covered that one somewhere before :P

 

So just to clarify the report and sorry if I read it wrong it says..

 

The course states that teenagers "will NOT be technically competent" even after studying the vocational qualification for up to four years.

 

They will instead learn about the history of hairdressing in society, its science and how celebrity hairstyles influence the industry.

 

To work as hairdressers or beauty therapists, they must go on to take further vocational qualifications such as NVQs.

So are we all clear now? The first 4 years of training are NOT towards a vocational qualification at all they are just a vacation :roll:

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