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WBC to close Sandy Lane Tip, Stockton Heath - 1 August !!

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Hi grey-man,

It's not a case of NIMBY, it is a case of idle promises made in the past. If the tip remains open we will take on the chin as we have in the past. We just want to voice our minority opinion as well.

 

Dessy. That's actually fair enough and I apologise.

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Hi Bazj,

 

Our point is not from a political point of view. We don't much care who governs but they do it with our interests at heart. That there is conniving and backstabbing to get votes does not concern us, our mutual benefits should be worked out between the parties not argued about who is right or who is wrong.

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Link to Labour's position on the consultation to close two recycling centres, undertaken by the previous administration in 2010.  That consultation demonstrated how much the tips were needed and the council at that time agreed to keep all three open and find savings elsewhere.  The point is, consultation was undertaken prior to making a decision.

 

http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/4885702.Residents_battle_against_recycling_centre_closures/

 

I have enormous sympathy for anyone who lives next to any facility (school, leisure centre, pub, large car park, recycling facility etc) which disturbs them.  The council should look at ways to reduce the impact of these facilities on nearby residents.  Closing them all isn't an option, but environmental screening, monitoring opening/closing times, regulations regarding vehicle movements etc can all help.

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Ann,

With respect, these options of impact have already been looked at by your party councillors as well as council and other parties to no avail. Why oppose the closure of one small recycling centre when we have two others. Remember that at the call in meeting it was cited that Liverpool has one for it's size while we at present have three.

Highly disproportionate "I think".

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Hi Warrington Councillors.

 

Labour, Liberal Democrats, Conservative and or others, please sort out your differences and put our interests at heart instead of pointing fingers at each other. The easiest thing in the world is to blame shift, it gets the finger pointing at someone else. I respect the views of all of you and would like the utopian situation of love for one another rather than the tearing down of humanity through lame accusations.

If it is really in the best financial interest to keep Sandy Lane CRC open then let it be, if not let it close.

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These aren't lame accusations and I'm saying this as a Labour voter. The council is no longer working in the best interests of the people of Warrington and has an entrenched culture of secrecy and obfuscation, not to mention skewed attitudes towards different parts of Warrington when it comes to decision making. Steve Parish makes the point for me here. To paraphrase him (and I'm sure he'll say that this is a misinterpretation: 'I work on the scrutiny committee but I don't care what the people of Warrington think generally, and those of South Warrington in particular, which is why we didn't ask; although we were worried enough about public opinion to keep it hushed up until after the elections'.

 

Well, so much for scrutiny, Steve. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 

 

The current administration needs to be booted out sooner rather than later but my fear is that it will be replaced with one that is no better and, certainly, the last time the Lib Dems and Tories controlled the Town Hall, it lurched from one disaster to another. 

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Ann,

With respect, these options of impact have already been looked at by your party councillors as well as council and other parties to no avail. Why oppose the closure of one small recycling centre when we have two others. Remember that at the call in meeting it was cited that Liverpool has one for it's size while we at present have three.

Highly disproportionate "I think".

 

Let's be generous and say that whoever mentioned the situation in Liverpool is being economical with the truth. There are four quoted on the Liverpool City Council website, the main one of which is open from 8 till 8 over the Summer months along with 31 bring bank sites. 

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Quite a lot to catch up on since I read last night so some catching up to do later but regarding Liverpool Council thought I'd mention that Liverpool City Council have the Bulky Bob's (bulky waste) collection service where residents can have 5 bulky items of waste at a time collected for FREE.

Warrington Council use exactly the same 'Bulky Bob' collection people and yest we have to PAY £20 for upto 3 items and £6.67 for each additional item (invoiced by WBC and paid to them) and this is the service that WBC suggest residents should make more use of when Stockton Heath Tip closes. :roll:   

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Am I looking at this map correctly which is included on the Scrutiny Committee's info re the 'call in' (from WBC's website)

It shows 3 x 3 mile linear circles for each of the 3 tips.  I live close to where the green dot is for Stockton Heath Tip so does it mean that the other two are just under 3 miles from my house and SH tip as they fall withing the same circle ? 

I've clearly had too much fresh air and sun today as I'm sure it means that but my other brain cell keeps saying it can't be. :oops:

http://cmis.warrington.gov.uk/cmis5/Document.ashx?czJKcaeAi5tUFL1DTL2UE4zNRBcoShgo=oH9pRZ%2faHbqpqoajNTdJAs6G9ZV4c6bkQWYL%2bgfireyXNuIq8XzDFA%3d%3d&rUzwRPf%2bZ3zd4E7Ikn8Lyw%3d%3d=pwRE6AGJFLDNlh225F5QMaQWCtPHwdhUfCZ%2fLUQzgA2uL5jNRG4jdQ%3d%3d&mCTIbCubSFfXsDGW9IXnlg%3d%3d=hFflUdN3100%3d&kCx1AnS9%2fpWZQ40DXFvdEw%3d%3d=hFflUdN3100%3d&uJovDxwdjMPoYv%2bAJvYtyA%3d%3d=ctNJFf55vVA%3d&FgPlIEJYlotS%2bYGoBi5olA%3d%3d=NHdURQburHA%3d&d9Qjj0ag1Pd993jsyOJqFvmyB7X0CSQK=ctNJFf55vVA%3d&WGewmoAfeNR9xqBux0r1Q8Za60lavYmz=ctNJFf55vVA%3d&WGewmoAfeNQ16B2MHuCpMRKZMwaG1PaO=ctNJFf55vVA%3d

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... why on earth are WBC's direct document links aways so very looooooooooooooooooooong

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Having stood in for another councillor at the scrutiny committee, I'd rather not get into argument about the detail - but bottom line is that the cuts are now biting.

 

Why? As has already been pointed out, there have been huge numbers of new properties built in Warrington in recent years. That's huge numbers of new council tax payers, and huge amounts of extra revenue for the council.

 

And yet there has been no increase in provision of tip facilities and a halving of bin collections.

 

So waste services in Warrington have already become significantly cheaper per household than they were, say, ten years ago.

 

 

We can consult all we like but if the result of consultation is "Don't save money by withdrawing this service" (or any other) then that's unrealistic.

 

So why not look at ways to generate revenue from these services? Such as actually charging traders for disposal of trade waste like you're supposed to rather than allowing your employees to just open the height barriers and wave anyone driving a Transit van through.

 

There's trade waste I've seen going into those tips for free from as far afeild as both Liverpool and Manchester - because those local authorities are doing at least that part of the job they're paid to do properly and don't allow it.

 

It will also obviously cost money to delay the new contract (say £9k a week).

 

Maybe should have consulted back in Jan/Feb before signing it then? If it costs the council money to delay the contract, then that should come out of the pockets of those who took the decision to keep these plans secret.

 

I could have pointed out that in my ward (Bewsey and Whitecross) most residents don't generate much green waste from their terrace house backyards.

 

And I could point out that they don't (on average) pay anywhere near as much council tax - and yet (again, on average) consume FAR more of the overall council budget than the residents of the areas served by Sandy Lane tip.

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Another document from the Scrutiny Committee's 'file' (it's page 25 of some document or another but the other pages aren't on there, just this specific one)

It shows the annual tonnages for all three tips/recycling facilities from 2008 to 2014.  Considering its size and the fact that Stockton Heaths tip also doesn't take some of the items the other two do it's obviously well used.

http://cmis.warrington.gov.uk/cmis5/Document.ashx?czJKcaeAi5tUFL1DTL2UE4zNRBcoShgo=GnZyjD86ei0%2fAfEaAvji53YvBhVQ8HT%2buc7HdxRlTQdYlIPImnSW6Q%3d%3d&rUzwRPf%2bZ3zd4E7Ikn8Lyw%3d%3d=pwRE6AGJFLDNlh225F5QMaQWCtPHwdhUfCZ%2fLUQzgA2uL5jNRG4jdQ%3d%3d&mCTIbCubSFfXsDGW9IXnlg%3d%3d=hFflUdN3100%3d&kCx1AnS9%2fpWZQ40DXFvdEw%3d%3d=hFflUdN3100%3d&uJovDxwdjMPoYv%2bAJvYtyA%3d%3d=ctNJFf55vVA%3d&FgPlIEJYlotS%2bYGoBi5olA%3d%3d=NHdURQburHA%3d&d9Qjj0ag1Pd993jsyOJqFvmyB7X0CSQK=ctNJFf55vVA%3d&WGewmoAfeNR9xqBux0r1Q8Za60lavYmz=ctNJFf55vVA%3d&WGewmoAfeNQ16B2MHuCpMRKZMwaG1PaO=ctNJFf55vVA%3d


 

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I didn't give much credence to the idea of keeping all three centres but staggering the opening days - it's hard enough keeping tabs on whether this week is blue bin or black bin.

Yes it is sometimes a little difficult to remember if it's blue or back bin week Steve and it was so much easier to remember before your Labour Council brought in fortnightly bin collections (ie alternate blue and black bin each week). Of course you could always just look on the stickers on your bin or on your council website if you are unsure

 

And I did resist reacting to the Lib Dem councillor who wanted residents to have two green bins - I could have pointed out that in my ward (Bewsey and Whitecross) most residents don't generate much green waste from their terrace house backyards.

Maybe they meant that people should be allowed to have two green bins if they need an extra one. You can already get an extra blue or black bun though so maybe you can already get an extra green one too if you ask... and of course providing that you don't mind your garden being cluttered by an endless line of bin just because the council wont empty them weekly or the local tip you just used to nip to has been closed.

 

PS We don't have a green bin either by the way and never have done (Warrington South by the way).

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I've no idea Inky and I just clicked on it and it opened, I hadn't even noticed it was a strange file format (a web handler format or something according to google).  Maybe it's because I opened the document in firefox then posted that direct very long link as having just looked on their website again they do seem to be pdf's.

Try opening the files yourself from the other link I posted as that might work for you.  Here it is again.... 

http://cmis.warrington.gov.uk/cmis5/MeetingsCalendar/tabid/73/ctl/ViewMeetingPublic/mid/410/Meeting/7491/Committee/1294/Default.aspx

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I live close to where the green dot is for Stockton Heath Tip so does it mean that the other two are just under 3 miles from my house and SH tip as they fall withing the same circle ?

Just done a rough scaling from my screen view. conveniently the circles show as six inches across on my monitor.

 stockton heath tip is therefore 2 1/4 miles from gateworth (2 1/4 inches measured) and woolston tip is just a shade over 2 1/4 miles away from it,as the seagull flies. by road this probably equates to 6 miles and 8 miles by road from the stockton heath tip. depending on the route you take.

 

did try working the route out on google maps but it doesn't seem to recognise the recycling centre

 

 

it's hard enough keeping tabs on whether this week is blue bin or black bin.

I make my own list using excel. Using the crib sheet the council provide and a magnifying glass (even with my glasses on i find the print too smalll to read easily) put the first date in the first column. put the next date in the second row of the first column. select the first two rows and in the first column then in the bottom right corner of the second row you should get a small black square. click on this and drag down and it will put the rest of the dates in automatically for the year. in the second column i then put in blue or black depending on what the bin is . highlight all the coloumns and rows including the third column and then from the menu bar at the top select the borders box and use all borders. Print onto A4 paper and you have a large sheet that you can pin up with a heck box at the end to tick off each week. if you want to you can also change the text to colours as well. for those with green bins an extra column can be used if the collection dates are the same. all you need to take note of is changes due to bank holidays etc.

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I've no idea Inky and I just clicked on it and it opened, I hadn't even noticed it was a strange file format (a web handler format or something according to google).  Maybe it's because I opened the document in firefox then posted that direct very long link as having just looked on their website again they do seem to be pdf's.

 

Try opening the files yourself from the other link I posted as that might work for you.  Here it is again.... 

 

http://cmis.warrington.gov.uk/cmis5/MeetingsCalendar/tabid/73/ctl/ViewMeetingPublic/mid/410/Meeting/7491/Committee/1294/Default.aspx

 

Sorted it, you need to have a pdf viewer installed as an add-on within Firefox. Once you have, Firefox will recognise the files and just open them as pdf's within a new tab. If you haven't, Firefox just downloads the files as their original .ashx's, which you can't open without first renaming them to be .pdf's.

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 The meeting was told that the council has earmarked the waste management services for over £800000 worth of cuts.  Closing Sandy Lane will only save £450000 (and that's before taking into consideration the costs of additional 'bring bank' facilities etc) so on that basis it would be inevitable that another site would also close later (which someone on here had already picked up from the letter from the Lab ward councillor) 

 

Anyone claiming that closing Sandy Lane tip will actually save the quoted £450K a year running costs must be either severely mathematically challenged or living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

First question is, how are the costs of running a tip made up? Second question is, which of those will actually be saved if we close it and divert the waste elsewhere?

 

So the major costs are - removal and disposal of the waste, staff wages, lighting, maintenance, and that's pretty much it.

 

Lighting and maintenance will be pretty small amounts of money compared to the £450K total - I doubt if the pair of them together would be as much as £10K per year.

 

Staff wages for at most half a dozen staff? Around £150K per year total, certainly no more than £200K - and I'm not sure there's as many as 6 staff there full time so it could be down nearer £120K if it's only about 4 employees.

 

That leaves over £300,000 representing the cost of removal and disposal of the actual waste, and WBC WILL STILL INCURR THOSE COSTS IF THEY DIVERT THE WASTE TO ONE OF THEIR OTHER TIPS!

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Just done a rough scaling from my screen view. conveniently the circles show as six inches across on my monitor.

 stockton heath tip is therefore 2 1/4 miles from gateworth (2 1/4 inches measured) and woolston tip is just a shade over 2 1/4 miles away from it,as the seagull flies. by road this probably equates to 6 miles and 8 miles by road from the stockton heath tip. depending on the route you take.

Thanks Evils it makes sense to me now :)

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