OXI -

[observer]

Seems the Greeks, despite getting 50% of their debt written off; are to have a referendum on their new austerity package - will turkeys vote for Xmas?!

[Dizzy]

The minute I saw the title OXI... I thought 'moron'.

 

I guess that was intended though.. if not it seems fitting

[observer]

Thought you'd know the Greek for "NO" Diz?!

[Wireboy]

What next for Europe? If/when the Greeks vote no, Surely they will leave the EU and go back to there own currency? That will then be like a house of cards for then rest of Europe.

 

Weather you want to be in the EU or not, Greek voting No is not going to help them or anybody else. What is the answer???

[Lt Kije]

Leaving the euro, will not help Greese as they will still owe the money and the debt will be in euros which could we worse for the Greeks

[observer]

Owing a debt and paying it back, are too seperate things; IF they default will their creditors send the bailiffs in?!

[Peter T]

Owing a debt and paying it back, are too seperate things; IF they default will their creditors send the bailiffs in?!

 

Are the Elgin Marbles worth anything?

[Lt Kije]

Obs they will have to pay one way or the other as well you know, it's very hard to get money once you have defaulted ,

[observer]

That's assuming you want to make your own way in the world; they can drop back into their old laid back ways, and wait for handouts from the EU! Mediaval English Kings, used to borrow off the Jews, then organise a pogrom, so they didn't have to pay them back!

[Lt Kije]

[inky pete]

They vote no, default on their debts, drop out of the Euro - and possibly all the way out of the EU. Then, with a devalued currency and free from the straitjacket of EU red tape and legislation, their tourist industry will be able to return to its pre-EU profitability and they'll take back the market share they've lost to Turkey, Egypt and the rest of the North African mediterranean tourist destinations.

 

Imported products will be relatively much more expensive, so Greeks will buy domestically produced goods and support Greek jobs rather than send their hard earned overseas. But their exports to the rest of the world will be much cheaper and much more competitive in their export markets - the profitability enjoyed by their olive oil, cheeses and other agricultural products (which sell all over the world - not just in the EU) will rise substantially.

 

As a result of both of these effects, they will be awash with euros, pounds, dollars, and even yuan, their balance of payments will be well into double digit percentages in their favour........

 

If you're Greek, what's not to like?????

[Lt Kije]

And they all live happily ever after

 

The Greeks have not been paying for themselves since WW2, they should have never been allowed into the euro, They have never sold enough of anything on the world market, if they had they would not have bothered to join the free market in the first place inky

[inky pete]

And they all live happily ever after

 

It's at least as likely a scenario for success as the current EU "if we just have lots of meetings about it maybe it'll get bored and go away" policy for tackling the crisis caused by the inherent structural problems within their own edifice.

 

The Greeks have not been paying for themselves since WW2, they should have never been allowed into the euro,

 

Admitting that your precious EU decision making process is flawed, Lt??????

 

They have never sold enough of anything on the world market, if they had they would not have bothered to join the free market in the first place inky

 

So, you're saying that the free market is only attractive to second rate economies which can't survive on their own in the big wide world????? Is that what it's for then? Dragging us all down to the lowest common denominator????

 

PS. Selling stuff you've made abroad is only ONE of the ways to trade and boost a countries balance of payments. In the case of Greece, their domestic tourism industry was a HUGE source of foreign currency and trade to them - before euro membership crippled it and priced it out of the marketplace, that is.

[Lt Kije]

I have always said Greece should not have been in the Euro, I cannot actually believe you actually believe what you posted, that selling olive oil and tourists will get them out of trouble. Did you say you had a degree.

[inky pete]

Tourism and shipping between them supply employment for over 50% of Greeks, agriculture another 22%.

 

So what you so blythely dismiss as "olive oil and tourists" already represents nearly 3/4 of the jobs in Greece.

 

I think they should play to their strengths and build upon the economic sectors in which they're already successful, don't you?

[observer]

Your arguement sounds about right to me Inky, and no doubt it will to the Greeks. As I recall, around half the population of Athens, moves out to the Islands for the Summer season, providing employment and foreign revenue - OK, perhaps the taxman doesn't see much of it, but it seems a better way for N/Europeans to "bale them out" by enjoying cheap holidays, rather than paying for the EU to carry them.

[Bazj]

Look at it this way.... before the Greeks joined the EU, they plodded along nicely relying on tourism and a few organic exports for their money. They didn't pay much in the way of tax, but things weren't too bad if you were a Greek chap..

 

Then along comes membership of the EU in 1981 and finally membership of the Euro in 2001.....

 

less than ten years later, the country is bust. Forced to price everything in line with European standards which means that their days of being able to offer cheap package holidays is finished. Cheap fags and booze are over and as has been pointed out, the former Greek holidaymakers are now sunning themselves in the warmer and cheaper climates of Turkey and Egypt...

 

Unfortunately, in their quest for world domination, the powers that be in Europe, made the fatal error of trying to align all the countries under one currency while overlooking the fact that huge industrial and agricultural nations like Germany and france have absolutely nothing in common financially with tourist hotspots like Spain, Portugal and Greece...

 

The Greeks will say no. There will be a re-vote (as they will be ordered to take) and they will still say no and then the whole lot will collapse; Angela Merkell will be ousted by the Germans at their next election which is not too far away and then we will see a mass exodus back to their own currencies once again. Germany can then go back to the Mark; the price is still shown in Marks on most shop reciepts even now, over ten years after the Euro.... that tells you something surely.... I don't remember our shops having £sd on receipts after we went decimal in the 70's and if they did, they certainly weren't there 10 years later!!

[observer]

Right Baz, and niether did we have anything in common with the temperament of the people either! They used to live life, rather than worry about it!

[observer]

Well I suppose the idea of "the people" of Greece deciding their fate in a referendum was too good to be true. Seems the EU Countries want "democracy" in the rest of the world but not in the EU.

[Lt Kije]

Sorry but Greece, was not plodding along nicely before they joined the EU. They could not wait to get into Euro free market, and get their hands on the farming subsidies as they were skint. They have done very well out of being in Europe.

[inky pete]

Yep, they got all that nice shiny new infrastructure paid for. And now that virtually every Greek island has its own airport and ferry terminal capable of bringing tourists from all over Europe and further afield - I reckon they'll do alright on their own.

[Lt Kije]

What would they do in the winter, no olives and no tourists

[Peter T]

Same as other seasonal trades. :roll:

[Lt Kije]

But inky things they can run a country on it

[observer]

So your now admitting that Greece etc came into the EU with a begging bowl eh? And the good old UK has been subsidising them since? Sounds like a good reason for us to get out of it!