The Normans

[observer]

Wed - 9pm - BBC2!

[Lt Kije]

Is this the same BBC, that make crap tv programs Obs

[observer]

There are a few gems amongst the dross Kyje, that's why I've mentioned it.

[Lt Kije]

Almost makes the licence fee worth paying

[observer]

Would be, if they produced more progs like it.

[Lt Kije]

[harry hayes]

Apart from egg-heads the programmes are not as good as they used to be.

 

Think I should get a rebate - and I'm 77..

 

Happy days

[observer]

Not to worry H, in three years you'll get it for nowt!

[Egbert]

Attracting a lot of attention this, for a programme that hasn't even been shown yet.

I asked my neighbour, Norman Smith, what he thought and he agreed that Normans have played a major role in British history.

[Peter T]

As did Norman Collier and Norman Vaughan, not to mention the song by Susan Maughan.

[observer]

that would seem to be the norm!

[Lt Kije]

[indy]

was it just me or did this programme seem a bit flat ?? I expected it to be highly charged with great battle scenes, re-enactments etc .... seemed more an attempt to tell a story by someone with little enthusiasm ?? maybe its just me ...... what did anyone else think about it ...

[observer]

Exactly my thoughts Indi; very dissapointing. Dan Snow did a slightly better job on BBC4 after and he did a full prog on Hastings with his Dad in their battles series. The Norman's success was based on the mounted charge with lance of armoured Knights, with the use of stirrups and high back saddle, allowing the full weight of the horse behind the impact - sort of the blitzkreig of it's day. Ironically, provided troops were diciplined and had the simple addition of a 12-18ft sharpened pole (EG Scots schiltron); the horses would simply shy off, add to this overhead fire from archers and the Normans could have been defeated - pity Harold didn't think of it!

[indy]

It was so bad that i switched over to an old Time Team programme ...... even though they declared my site sterile ??

 

strange really as since they left I can't believe the number of amazing Roman artefacts I have recovered .... did they miss it ?? no they just ignored my advice of where they should dig .....

 

Well in the next few weeks my latest finds may well be exposed on Regional news tv programmes .. watch this space

[observer]

Has anyone ever dug/found the exact site of the first Norman fort in Warrington? Believe it was near the Parish Church, covering the ford crossing of the Mersey along the line of the old Roman road?

[indy]

Motte Hill !!! the large mound still visible in the church grounds is supposed to indicate the position. It is here that Jet carved gaming pieces were recovered and now residing in Warrington Museum ...

 

A place of worship has been present on the site since about 650 and the presence of a priest in Warrington was recorded in the Domesday Book. The earliest fabric in the church is in the chancel and the crypt which survives from the church built in 1354 by Sir William Boteler. This church was badly damaged by the Parliamentary forces in the Civil War. Following this the tower was rebuilt in 1696 and the nave in 1770.

[tonymailman2]

Has anyone ever dug/found the exact site of the first Norman fort in Warrington? Believe it was near the Parish Church, covering the ford crossing of the Mersey along the line of the old Roman road?

 

Yes they have ........ the site of the original motte & bailey structure from the time of Paganus de Villers ........ destroyed by fire sometime between 1255 & 1260 .. ish ! the original centre of Warrington. Typical manor set out of the time with the nearby church.

[tonymailman2]

Refering to Hastings ............ it's pretty common knowledge that the forces of Harold were badly depleted and weary after 2 previous battles only a few weeks previous at Gate Fulford and Stamford Bridge .......... it was actually the secong barrage of arrows from William's ( aimed strategically this time 'over' the main shield wall as opposed to 'at them in the first') forces that eventually started to do the damage at Hastings after the re-forming and lull of the first phase of the battle, considering the advantage Harold's men had (despite the tiredness of previous weeks and loss of men) on the higher ground they really should have won ......... the first part of the attack planned by William not really going to plan ......... the rest, as they say, is history ............

[observer]

It remains a great "what if" - but Harold' best strategic option would have been to NOT have fought the battle at all, but to muster the full military potential he had; deny food to the enemy foragers by evacuating and scorching the earth around Hastings; and allowing the coming Winter sea storms to destroy his fleet. Alas Harold was too impetuous for that. Tactically, at the battle, had he maintained the strict dicipline necessary to keep the shield wall in place, the result may have been different. The Bretons on the Norman left, either as a ruse or by genuine panick at believing William had been killed; routed back; the Saxon units broke ranks and pursued, only to wiped out by a rallied Norman counter attack, this seriously depleted the shield wall, and as you say, high trajectory archer fire added to their disorganisation, and hence defeat. In historic battles, the majority of losses were suffered in the route, and William had the cavalry to pursue relentlessly.

[tonymailman2]

True ......... and yet another one of history's 'what ifs' ......... and a VERY important turning point also

[indy]

Welcome back to the forum Tony !!!!!!

[observer]

Watched another interesting prog, about the Domesday Book. Apparently it wasn't about tax gathering data, but rather the legalisation of land theft perpetrated on the Saxon landowners by the new Norman nobility and also to legitimise the new Royal Dynasty. Interesting also, that 10,000 Normans dominated a million Saxons.