harry hayes Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 SHOULD any major party gave a real promise to have a referendum on Europe come whay may, would that swing enough votes to give a clear majority? Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Could you have a fair vote with the Murdock press so against Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 You mean the Murdoch press and 90% of the population as well? It wouldn't be a fair vote,........... it would be a bloodbath for the Pro-Europeans like you Kije; which is why we will never get one! I speak a lot to my mate in East Germany and he tells of a similar story in Germany with a growing unrest at the gathering of powers from the individual countries..... This whole Europe thing will blow up in their faces at some stage in the future....mark my words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Mass immigration, the Human Rights Act, the damage that the Euro has wrought - all down to the failed EU experiment. A genuine referendum on withdrawal would GUARANTEE any major party a landslide victory. But then all the politicians wouldn't have jobs in euro-quangos with massive salaries and absolutely no accountability to retire into. So the chances of us actually getting to vote on ditching Europe are akin to those of a snowball surviving a calander year in Hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Just about sums things up Inky - perhaps folk should start voting for what they believe needs doing, rather than for whom they think can win?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I rest my case we could not have a fair vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 WHAT! We couldn't have a "fair" vote' cos a majority would vote to come out of the EU?! Just about sums up your liberal philosophy Kyje and the mind set of the EU mandarins; we can't let democracy get in the way of the big idea can we?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I rest my case we could not have a fair vote. You haven't got a case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 A head case?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 One person, one vote, count em up. Basic democracy. Fairest system there is. We're not suggesting that the sort of tactics we see in certain overseas votes would happen here are we? Mrs Jenkinson mowed down by machine gun fire as she drove a chara of OAPs to the local village hall to vote...... But there's no guarantee of a majority vote to leave the EU. Let's not underestimate the value of apathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 The Sun newspaper took credit for keeping Kinnock out, perhaps if we had a fairer press that gave both sides instead of only one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 The Sun newspaper took credit for keeping Kinnock out, perhaps if we had a fairer press that gave both sides instead of only one I have asked this of you on countless occasions Kije; but never got a straight answer. Tell me now why being in Europe is so beneficial to us in the UK. Beneficial as in something we wouldn't have by not being in "the club" You know my feelings and the reasons why I don't want to be in the EU..... increased and unstoppable immigration, less powers in the UK to make our own laws, collossal waste of our money (including moving the entire parliament every month from Brussels to Strasbourg and back - can you justify that one please?) I could go on, but I will give you your chance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 As I have said many time before, I want one government for the World an united Europe is a no more than a stepping stone nothing more. We have to start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 As I have said many time before, I want one government for the World an united Europe is a no more than a stepping stone nothing more. We have to start somewhere. Kije, please excuse my brevity..... but you really must be crackers mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Being crackers is no bar to having a political opinion. Or even a political party. Or even running a country..... in fact, some would say it's a basic requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 It will never happen in my life time, but it has to start somewhere I have a dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 There's nothing wrong with the dream - the idea of countries on the same landmass working together to get a better deal all round is an excellent one. Unfortunately, as we keep seeing over and over again, the slight snag is translating that dream into a reality where human beings are selfish, greedy and arrogant. The EU is a moneypit as it is currently operated. A wasteful, useless, counterproductive layer of superfluous government and unwanted interference. We either stay in and try to reform it, or we pull out and find another basis for partnership. Personally, I'd opt to leave and prioritise our own interests, then look to find a way of interacting that doesn't damage us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 As I've said before Kyje; you liberal dreamers have sleep walked us into crisis after crisis - mankind is a society of competing interests for which politics (or war) provide resolution. Whilst logically, this planet we live on, should be globally administered; unfortunately we havn't advanced much intellectually since we walked out of our caves, so global peace and harmony will take a long time yet, if ever. Governance is or should be about providing powers at optimum levels of human society, in order for politics and political institutions to retain any relevance to people; unfortunately, the creation of higher levels of administration, creates with it an irresistable desire on the part of the political performers to gravitate power away from the people and towards the centre - first Westminister and now Brussels - where a "political village" mentality leads to ivory tower politics and corruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 A single world government! Coz the UN has been SUCH a success, hasn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thus proving my point - mankind is unfortunately not intellectually ready for such levels of civilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 mankind is unfortunately not intellectually ready for such levels of civilization. Speak for yourself, I'm their already I have a dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Indeed, most liberals have - and sleep walk from one crisis to the next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 So how do you propose we get there Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 So how do you propose we get there Obs we won't because it isn't possible Kije.... Mankind isn't designed to get along under one world order; there are too many differences between us all. Just look at the EU, cracks appearing already in some countries, three countries (including one of the main players) unable to ratify a treaty and being made to do it again until they get it "right" Many other countries angry at having to bail out a fellow member (Greece) and that is only for starters. Can you imagine what would happen when they throw Turkey into the mix???? a proper twizzler if ever there was one! Now try and imagine it if the USA joined in and then China and add a few terrorist states for a bit of balance... Kije, it is something that will only ever happen on Star Trek I'm afraid We in the UK do not like to be told what to do by anyone, that is why we fought countless wars and took over half the worlds population, because we were good at telling others what to do! This EU thing will all come crashing down in less than 15 years...... watch this space and remember where you heard it first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 As I've indicated; mankind hasn't reached the level of intelligence yet, to operate a successfull global democracy. Nation States, like individuals, have interests and it's hard wired into us to be selfish. The only reason we evolved into social animals at all, was that self interest for survival lay in operating as a group. Until and if ever we reach such levels of civilisation, I guess we have to fall back on protecting the interests of ourselves, our families and our nation state - in that order - lifes to short to live in a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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