Bazj Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 One can't get a half decent butler for 29 grand these days. You would be suprised what minimum wage can get for us capitalists Safeway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 I am unsurprised to find that a small number have been thieving in petty ways. Blimey.... so the likes of David Chaytnor and Elliot Morley (i.e. small number = 2!!) nicking tens of thousands of pounds by claiming for mortgages that don't exist is petty??? It really must be posh in Lymm if stealing a piddling amount like ?29,000 qualifies as being a petty crime!! Baz. I didn't say ?29K was a petty sum. I said fiddling your exes was a petty way to steal. It is. Petty and devious and underhanded, as opposed to openly violent and involving shotguns. However, within the context of the sums of money MPs are responsible for directing around the place; or within the context of the ?80M a year we spend running our system (figures from Obs!), ?29K IS a drop in the bucket. What I actually SAID was that I expect MPs to be as human as any other group of people and when there are issues like racism and child poverty to tackle, I can't be bothered with a bit of petty expenses fiddling. It wasn't worth all the fuss. That ?29K is the reason we have 2 BNP creatures sitting as MEPs representing us. Not worth it. How much has it cost to investigate it? How much to prosecute them? Not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Sorry LP but when folk assume the mantle of public office, there are certain sacrifices to be made, one being that one avoids the petty luxeries of the character defects you describe; as these are the folk who tell the rest of us how to behave, indeed make laws to that effect. And my criticism of the majority of these shysters isn't an arguement for autocracy either, but one for decreasing their numbers, which at present exceeds the per capita representation of any other Country. There's clearly a case for a 50% reduction in MPs and a reduction to 100 Lords and making that an elected chamber - and of course introducing independent scrutiny and setting of their pay and conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Then in that case LP, you obviously are a person to which principles do not matter. How much does it cost the Police to catch and prosecute a drunken driver? a driver with no insurance? How much do all those police cars cost along with the computer systems and the backup staff and everything else? Catching crooks costs lots of money and when you break it down into its component parts, most everyday crime that the country expect to be solved probably cost more to solve than they are worth actually solving. Having two BNP MEP's isn't the end of the world as they will probably get kicked out at the next election anyway and they will eventually fade away (as long as the mainstream parties now take notice of why they are there in the first place and it isn't just expenses fiddling is it?) If we don't bother doing things just because of the cost, you will be very upset as to the outcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 As with most things in life these days, the punishment NEVER fits the crime. Welcome to ANARCHY!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 I guess LP is one of those tolerant folk, who stand in a queue and allows demics to jump it - very British! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Then in that case LP, you obviously are a person to which principles do not matter. How much does it cost the Police to catch and prosecute a drunken driver? a driver with no insurance? How much do all those police cars cost along with the computer systems and the backup staff and everything else? Catching crooks costs lots of money and when you break it down into its component parts, most everyday crime that the country expect to be solved probably cost more to solve than they are worth actually solving. Having two BNP MEP's isn't the end of the world as they will probably get kicked out at the next election anyway and they will eventually fade away (as long as the mainstream parties now take notice of why they are there in the first place and it isn't just expenses fiddling is it?) If we don't bother doing things just because of the cost, you will be very upset as to the outcome! You done ranting? I said nothing about the cost of policing crime. I said that it isn't worth wasting police time and public money investigating somthing as petty as expenses-fiddling to the tune of ?29K. Drunk drivers kill people. I don't think even the rabid Obs is suggesting that our MPs have caused death or injury by buying fancy toilet seats with taxpayers' money. And yes, the BNP blokes got in because people stayed away as a protest over expenses. There are other areas of dissatisfaction, but it was specifically the expenses scandal that caused the mass no-show at an election nobody thought mattered. It sickens me that they represent this country. I'd rather have any number of petty cheats than that pair of racists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 I guess LP is one of those tolerant folk, who stand in a queue and allows demics to jump it - very British! Demic? Care to clarify that term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Not fit for purpose. Applies to both people and objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 So we don't investigate a crime of theft involving ?29,000 but then what about a burglar who breaks into a house and steals ?30.00? is that worth investigating regardless of the cost involved? ?50.00, ?100.00? where do we start to class it as a crime worth investigating LP? You may see it as a rant, but I see it as the right thing to do regardless of the cost. Not everyone fiddles their expenses in business you know so don't try and dismiss what the scumbag theiving MP's have done as something "we would all do given the chance" You may have slack morals, but not everyone does you know Theft is theft regardless of the amounts involved. Imagine your reaction if the Police decided not to investigate the theft from your house because it wasn't worth the cost involved. And also for your information, drunk drivers kill less people than sober ones in this country. and as for the expression "demic", a demic is a prat, an idiot or someone who jumps queues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 She obviously prefers thieves to alleged racists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 This thread seems to be on a par with the Vicar condoning theft. ANY form of theft/stealing is wrong and if these things were sorted in their infancy, perhaps they wouldn't occur at a higher level. BUT the punishment has to fit the crime. It's just a pity that the Government don't set the example. Not only on expenses (I would have thought MORE people would have voted because of that fiasco) but on the whitewash enquiries that take place. Justice needs to be seen to be done and people ned to be seen as accountable!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Would it be acceptable if the thief says "sorry" afterwards?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Would it be acceptable if the thief says "sorry" afterwards?! ahhh but they don't, they plead innocence and claim to be appealing etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thought "sorry" was the new "get out of jail free card", all the top managers and politicians use it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Didn't Elton John sing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Didn't Elton John sing about it. He did indeed, but he thought it seemed to be the hardest word....unlike the bankers and politicians who find it very easy to say it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I was waiting to see who would pick up on that one Baz, so well done. Call me a cynic, but I tend to feel that people are only sorry....because they got caught...and sorry for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 There's a Brit in China, caught smuggling drugs, who I'm sure is extremely sorry at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 There's a Brit in China, caught smuggling drugs, who I'm sure is extremely sorry at the moment! Read the story properly observer. He is most likely the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 If he is mentally ill, he should be undergoing "care in the community"; not swaning off to China - which has a low tolerance of crime, irrespective of excuses. When in Rome etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 If he is mentally ill, he should be undergoing "care in the community"; not swaning off to China - which has a low tolerance of crime, irrespective of excuses. When in Rome etc. get your facts right!!!!! Do you know what bi-polar is????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 bi-polar is I believe an alternating state and a form of manic depression where the person with the disorder fluctuates (for want of a better phrase) between depression and a "high" state, although in the two recent high profile cases, it has been used as an excuse for hacking into top USA government computer networks allegedly looking for evidence of UFO's and the most recent one, it is being used as an excuse for drug smuggling. I know next to nothing about the condition Peter, but from what I have read, diagnosing bipolar disorder is difficult, even for mental health professionals. So it would appear to a lay person such as myself; that the families/lawyers of these two current claimants of Bi-Polar disorder have suddenly become very knowledgable very quickly, more so than many professional persons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Sorry Baz, but it is only difficult if you aren't looking outside the norm. I know several people who are bi-polar and even they didn't know what the problem was for a long time until meeting someone else with the condition. All I am saying, is that obs shouldn't jump to conclusions, nor should anyone else. If the guy had mental issues as well, and wanted to live the dream, he "could" have been gullible enough to do it and not think that anything was wrong. As for the parents, even though they had had no contact for a long time, wouldn't you get a tad concerned if your son was going to get shot???? Not everyone lives in your black and white world, most live in grey areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Well the guy has been executed and Gordon Brown is a bit upset. Apparently the Chinese are saying that there was NO evidence of Bi-Polar disorder in any of the chaps health examinations and it may appear that there were none on his records over here either.... Well, if he was a drug smuggler, claiming to have this disorder, he certainly won't be doing it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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